Merged 8.8 quake in Sendai, Japan

[Kestrel]

My understanding is that this whole problem was created because the tsunami knocked out the diesel generators, correct?

My question is simple. Why were they unable to replace them with a mobile generator within a matter of hours?

Surely you'd allow for an obvious contingency like that, wouldn't you?

In the film industry we use generator trucks all the time with substantial electrical output. Our army has generators mounted on 4WD Unimog trucks that can drive through water pretty much up to the top of the cabin (it's generally a good idea to leave a little gap at the top so the driver can see).

California nuclear plants have truck mounted generators offsite for just that contingency.

Commercial power is available a short distance away. It shouldn't take more than a day or two to connect the reactors to power. But construction only started yesterday.

 

[jayh]

My understanding is that this whole problem was created because the tsunami knocked out the diesel generators, correct?

My question is simple. Why were they unable to replace them with a mobile generator within a matter of hours?

Surely you'd allow for an obvious contingency like that, wouldn't you?

In the film industry we use generator trucks all the time with substantial electrical output. Our army has generators mounted on 4WD Unimog trucks that can drive through water pretty much up to the top of the cabin (it's generally a good idea to leave a little gap at the top so the driver can see).

I suspect it was much deeper than that, the lack of power was only the final straw. A tsunami strong enough to damage the generators probably will damage lots of other eqiupiment, powerlines and piping.

There is also the possibility that even losing the generators for a few hours during the shutdown process completely destabilized the situation.

 

[Rolfe]

We seem to have two threads talking about the nuclear power plants and nobody talking about the earthquake/tsunami itself.

There are half a million people homeless, sleeping in schools and sports halls, it's freezing and snowing, and these people have lost everything - in many cases including close family members. They're running out of food and fuel and there is a shortage of blankets.

The death toll is still a guess. Official figures are a few thousand, but 29 towns have been completely or partially wiped out, and in several of these towns they're talking about 10,000 people missing. Each. The amount of property damage is appalling, and nobody has any idea what will or can emerge from that rubble to re-home the survivors. Several of these towns in effect no longer exist.

Looking at the geography on Google Maps, it seems that many of these towns were built on the flat land at the head of coves/fjords/sea lochs. The tsunami has obviously been funnelled by the bays right at the towns. The designated tsunami refuges were in some cases much too low for safety in a tsunami of the height that actually happened, and became death traps. Building standards obviously hadn't taken anything like that into account, as it's fairly easy to see how properties could be built to have a good chance of standing up to that sort of wave, but few were constructed in that way.

Now I realise the nuclear situation is serious, but so far it hasn't killed anyone, and there's a genuine disaster going on all around it right now.

Rolfe.

 

[Last of the Fraggles]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,751135,00.html



Germany gets 29% of it's electricity from nuclear power. So I imagine that shutting down half it's plants is going to put a big dent in the availability of electricity in Germany. And what effect will that have on their economy?

We seem to have two threads talking about the nuclear power plants and nobody talking about the earthquake/tsunami itself.

There are half a million people homeless, sleeping in schools and sports halls, it's freezing and snowing, and these people have lost everything - in many cases including close family members. They're running out of food and fuel and there is a shortage of blankets.

The death toll is still a guess. Official figures are a few thousand, but 29 towns have been completely or partially wiped out, and in several of these towns they're talking about 10,000 people missing. Each. The amount of property damage is appalling, and nobody has any idea what will or can emerge from that rubble to re-home the survivors. Several of these towns in effect no longer exist.

Looking at the geography on Google Maps, it seems that many of these towns were built on the flat land at the head of coves/fjords/sea lochs. The tsunami has obviously been funnelled by the bays right at the towns. The designated tsunami refuges were in some cases much too low for safety in a tsunami of the height that actually happened, and became death traps. Building standards obviously hadn't taken anything like that into account, as it's fairly easy to see how properties could be built to have a good chance of standing up to that sort of wave, but few were constructed in that way.

Now I realise the nuclear situation is serious, but so far it hasn't killed anyone, and there's a genuine disaster going on all around it right now.

Rolfe.

Agreed. However the nuclear situation is a developing and changing one. The earthquake and tsunami have happened and the focus now is in dealing with the aftermath. The focus will be on the nuclear situation until its resolved and then people can get down to the hard work of rebuilding their lives, towns and country.

 

[Rolfe]

Well, yeah, but we're now discussing the nuclear reactor situation in three different threads.

Rolfe.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I wonder what people In germany will feel when they see their power bills go through tthe roof because The German Power companies will have to buy their power from other countries..France in Particular...who will make them pay through the nose for it.

Once the krauts shut down their reactors and buy their first gigawatt hour from france, Arevas billing office should have their accountants do a march through the Brandenburg Gate.

I wonder if the germans would get the hint?

 

[Aepervius]

Agreed. However the nuclear situation is a developing and changing one. The earthquake and tsunami have happened and the focus now is in dealing with the aftermath. The focus will be on the nuclear situation until its resolved and then people can get down to the hard work of rebuilding their lives, towns and country.

It is a changing one but until it even reach 1/100 of the number of dead of damage to the enviornment than the tsunami did, I think you can limit it to the other two thread.

At the moment it isn't a blip in the dead and damage list done by the tsunami.

 

[Sabretooth]

Never mind how many a-bombs the US detonated in Japan.
Have you any idea how many have been tested in Nevada?

Time Lapse of every Nuclear explosion since 1945:

 

[sts60]

It is a changing one but until it even reach 1/100 of the number of dead of damage to the enviornment than the tsunami did, I think you can limit it to the other two thread.

At the moment it isn't a blip in the dead and damage list done by the tsunami.

Agreed, and over the past few days while the media (including bloggers and other such "new media") have been wetting their pants over the reactor site, there have been many people at actual and immediate risk of death from injuries, exposure to near-freezing temperatures, and contaminated (or no) food and water while the rescue efforts try to reach them.

I will refrain from making any more reactor-related posts (like this one) in this thread. I would note that my impression therein, based on reported events, seems to be correct.

 

[Rolfe]

Well, there are two other threads actively discussing the nuclear situation. Even if that's the interesting bit, there's something to be said for keeping it relatively compact.

Rolfe.

 

[Sunstealer]

Not sure if this has been posted before but it's aerial photos before and after. The devastation is quite unbelievable.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42052263/ns/technology_and_science-space/

 

[Rolfe]

That's a different one from the previous images linked, I think.

I wish they would say where each picture is. I've been looking at various towns affected, which are listed on Wikipedia, and it would be interesting to know which picture is of where.

People are linking to individual articles about particular towns on the individual wiki pages for the towns, and it's these local stories which are the most penetrating, I think. The Al-Jazeera report from Rikuzentakata is very sad.


Rolfe.

 

[angrysoba]

Well, there are two other threads actively discussing the nuclear situation. Even if that's the interesting bit, there's something to be said for keeping it relatively compact.

Rolfe.

I agree with this.

Could we try and keep the nuclear stuff on another thread. Maybe the mods can move that discussion. It's difficult for people to keep up with the two different serious issues to have them dispersed across multiple threads.

 

[angrysoba]

By the way, if you are not aware of it there is a ustream link to an English language NHK channel here:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/earthquake-in-japan

 

[Rolfe]

I think it would complicate everything too much to move posts at this stage. It was more a plea to take further discussion of the nuclear plant to one of the other threads.

Rolfe.

 

[Beerina]

Once the krauts shut down their reactors and buy their first gigawatt hour from france, Arevas billing office should have their accountants do a march through the Brandenburg Gate.

I wonder if the germans would get the hint?

The power companies just outside California did the same thing to the idiots in that state. Boy that felt good to watch that in progress. The consequences of your own foolish, foolish actions as reality decides to make an appearance in your tribal moral community's appallingly inaccurate, feel-good memetic worldview. The recall election was really heartwarming.

 

[Kestrel]

Does Japan have an organization that coordinates disaster relief like FEMA does in the US?

 

[Skwinty]

I heard an interesting comment about the Japanese nuclear workers today.

The older workers (59+) are volunteering for the hazardous duties as they have lived a full life and wish to spare the younger folk the result of extreme radiation exposure.

Is this a form of Bushido?

 

[BenBurch]

I heard an interesting comment about the Japanese nuclear workers today.

The older workers (59+) are volunteering for the hazardous duties as they have lived a full life and wish to spare the younger folk the result of extreme radiation exposure.

Is this a form of Bushido?

I'd say so. Though if it happened here I would be in line to volunteer.

 

[Kestrel]

The death toll is still a guess. Official figures are a few thousand, but 29 towns have been completely or partially wiped out, and in several of these towns they're talking about 10,000 people missing. Each. The amount of property damage is appalling, and nobody has any idea what will or can emerge from that rubble to re-home the survivors. Several of these towns in effect no longer exist.

Last night, NHK was reporting an official count of over 5,000 dead and about 9,500 missing.