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My argument against materialism

PixyMisa said:
You couldn't be more wrong. Well, okay, you could be more wrong, as we've seen from others in this thread, but you couldn't be more wrong while still constructing a coherent sentence.

Not commonly. Universally.

I did. All of mechanics is electromagnetism and gravity. What is planetary structure if not mechanics?

You accept that there's gravity at work on Jupiter, right? The gravitational force, attracting the matter inward?

By Newton's Laws of Motion, that inward force, if not counterbalanced, will result in an inward acceleration. That inward acceleration, if not counterbalanced, will not stop until Jupiter is reduced to a point mass - a black hole.

This isn't happening, so clearly there is a counterbalancing force.

What is that force?

It's not a hard question, kenkoskinen. There's only four forces, and three of them can't possibly be right.

What does that leave? Hmm?
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What's the force Kenneth?
 
punshhh said:
Amazing you conclude the opposite of what i said.

Which was;

That in order to realise what we don't know, we need first to know what we do know.
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But that's not what you said.

If it were, I would've said it was patently obvious. And also ridiculous. In order to know what you know, you first need to learn what you don't know. See ? Philosophy is so useless !
 
Kenkoskinen:

You are correct that material in the chair interlocks keeping me derriere from passing through. But what you cannot seem to realize is that "keeping my derriere from passing through" is an application of a force resisting the force trying to make it pass through.

It is mainstream physics that this force is electromagnetic.

Watch the video I embedded before we go further. You have no right to demand references when you ignore them.
 
Robin said:
Maybe one day, even, there will be a mystic who triumphantly comes up with the answer - "reality is X!".

Then I will ask "and what is X?".

And so the search will continue...
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How many different ways do you think you're going to have to make this point before it sinks in?
 
Robin said:
Idealism is not an ontology. Materialism is not an ontology. Just as I said ...

Name me one ontology that we have to choose from. You already ruled out Idealism and Materialism in the previous paragraph. What else do you think is an ontology?
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mu

The words 'idealism' and 'materialism' are useful tags that attempt to convey the underlying ontologic choice.

Do you prefer Reality is 'with-intent' or 'without-intent'?
 
More Woo-Science!

PixyMisa said:
You couldn't be more wrong. Well, okay, you could be more wrong, as we've seen from others in this thread, but you couldn't be more wrong while still constructing a coherent sentence.

Not commonly. Universally.
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Okay ... your term is even better. How come I, you or anyone else can't find a single specific reference to this so-called universally known fact? I repeatedly asked for such a reference and didn't get it. I also searched, it doesn't exist because ... all of this is woo-science?

I did. All of mechanics is electromagnetism and gravity. What is planetary structure if not mechanics?
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Huh? Mechanics ... do you mean car repair or something else? Now let me guess: maybe quantum mechanics, the mechanics of motion or the mechanics of woo-science? If you mean "the mechanics of motion" and all of it is only due to EM or gravity, what about the motions caused by the nuclear forces? If that's the case, then, even you have to admit ... logic forbid ... you are wrong!

You accept that there's gravity at work on Jupiter, right? The gravitational force, attracting the matter inward?
Click to expand...

Of course, gravity is a universal force. However gravity on Jupiter is only maintaining the planet in its current form. Gravity doesn't super crunch things inward. If it did that, Jupiter & the universe wouldn't exist. Gravity works by the mass/energy count in a locality. It can't go beyond it, neither below it. EM & the other Standard Model forces gravitate and hence add to the count. These forces do NOT repulse gravity. This is part of your woo-science.

By Newton's Laws of Motion, that inward force, if not counterbalanced, will result in an inward acceleration. That inward acceleration, if not counterbalanced, will not stop until Jupiter is reduced to a point mass - a black hole. This isn't happening, so clearly there is a counterbalancing force.
Click to expand...

Newton's law of motion aren't an inward "force" or a specific "force" of any kind. They are principles of an object's stationary position or changes in an object's motion. Nor do the laws of motion imply any necessary acceleration. They also describe and/or cover an object's stationary state or changes to the motion of an object via deceleration. Your implication there must be a counterbalancing force to "that inward force" or it would result in a black hole is simply more of your woo-science!

What is that force?
It's not a hard question, kenkoskinen. There's only four forces, and three of them can't possibly be right.
What does that leave? Hmm?
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We both know what the four forces of nature are. The EM force doesn't repulse gravity and again Newton's laws of motion aren't a "force." They cover the changes in an object's state. All of the four forces of nature were not even known in Newton's day. Where do you get your woo-science? I'm glad that you posted this nonsense. It's gets better by the day. SMT is coming! I'm just waiting for a few more wacky posts. I hope they pile up. Please encourage your woo-science friends to add their posts. Stay tuned ... or better yet ... post some more!
 
kenkoskinen said:
Of course, gravity is a universal force. However gravity on Jupiter is only maintaining the planet in its current form. Gravity doesn't super crunch things inward. If it did that, Jupiter & the universe wouldn't exist. Gravity works by the mass/energy count in a locality. It can't go beyond it, neither below it. EM & the other Standard Model forces gravitate and hence add to the count. These forces do NOT repulse gravity. This is part of your woo-science.
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I've missed the last few pages, so please forgive if I'm re-stating the obvious, but gravity would super crunch things inward without counter forces against it, primarily the repulsive force of EM. Of course EM doesn't repulse gravity, it repulses other EM fields of like charges so it takes an extraordinary mass to generate enough gravity to overcome that repulsion. Black holes have enough mass in a small enough space to do that, Jupiter doesn't.
 
AlBell said:
You are of course free to believe that.

I no more know what an idealist's ideas are made of than you know what a materialist's quarks and bosons (the current "atom" level ala Democritus) are made of.
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Amazing! You've just agreed with Robin, here, that neither of them are ontologies.
 
kenkoskinen said:
Nonsense, it means there isn't enough mass. Mass gravitates and if Jupiter ever acquires enough matter it would become a star. However, it's hard to imagine how that could happen.
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Wow. It's hard to comment on exactly how wrong this is. I guess you unwittingly answered Pixy's questions with an "I honestly don't know."

Gravity does hold Jupiter together.
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And again !

No, EM forces keep Jupiter from collapsing into a singularity. It keeps your hand from going through your keyboard, as well.
 
kenkoskinen said:
Of course, gravity is a universal force. However gravity on Jupiter is only maintaining the planet in its current form. Gravity doesn't super crunch things inward. If it did that, Jupiter & the universe wouldn't exist. Gravity works by the mass/energy count in a locality. It can't go beyond it, neither below it. EM & the other Standard Model forces gravitate and hence add to the count. These forces do NOT repulse gravity. This is part of your woo-science.
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It's amazing the stuff you say because of a single misunderstanding of how EM works.

EM prevents the molecules of solid and liquid objects from compressing further because of the charge of the electrons. That means that, below a certain mass, gravity can't compress Jupiter more than it is now. That's why it isn't a small black hole. Increase the mass, however, and EM will be beaten by gravity, and you get a Neutron Star until the other forces are overwhelmed by an even greater mass, causing a black hole.
 
punshhh said:
I am serious we see existence through monkey coloured glasses.

Ok, the event horizon of the formless is one way of describing an idea I use which is trying to reconcile the infinite and the finite. By imagining the middle ground between the two, you have infinity in the middle like a black hole or singularity or a worm hole.

This has an event horizon around it which in a multi dimensional sense contains all finite forms and the whole thing looks a bit like an ear horn.

Now we just need babel fish to translate this into scientific terminology.

I'm off on a walking holiday now "see" you in a weeks time.
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When you have to resort to science fiction concepts to make your argument you've lost the argument.
 
Woo Science

PixyMisa said:
And every physicist on the planet agrees with me.


And why is mass relevant?


Don't try to talk about the Standard Model when you haven't grasped Newton's First Law of Motion. Seriously.
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Nonsense and more woo-science! See comment # 2244
 
Woo

Belz... said:
Wow. It's hard to comment on exactly how wrong this is. I guess you unwittingly answered Pixy's questions with an "I honestly don't know."



And again !

No, EM forces keep Jupiter from collapsing into a singularity. It keeps your hand from going through your keyboard, as well.
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Nonsense. See post #2244
 
More Nonsense!

Mister Agenda said:
I've missed the last few pages, so please forgive if I'm re-stating the obvious, but gravity would super crunch things inward without counter forces against it, primarily the repulsive force of EM. Of course EM doesn't repulse gravity, it repulses other EM fields of like charges so it takes an extraordinary mass to generate enough gravity to overcome that repulsion. Black holes have enough mass in a small enough space to do that, Jupiter doesn't.
Click to expand...

Nonsense: see post #2244
 
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