Merged 8.8 quake in Sendai, Japan

r-j said:
I just got home from a trip and turn on CNN and they are showing this huge tsunami, but it's snowing in the video. They are also showing video of a huge quake with snow in the video? What is going on? They aren't saying when the tsunami video is from!

Nothing on the CNN website either. Has there been another quake? I don't remember it snowing on the 11th?
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Those are more videos coming out from people who were further north when the initial quake occurred.
 
MattusMaximus said:
You are assuming that because some of us - who have actual training in physics & engineering and understand what is going on more than most people - are attempting to address the situation in a rational manner, then we must not be concerned and think that all such concern is woo. You are wrong; what we are concerned about is getting as much factually correct information out as possible, and we keep running into people who have been grossly misinformed by the media on this issue. That is more than frustrating and can lead some of us to be more than a little testy when continually hit with "this is going to be another Chernobyl!" and similar tripe.

I have more important things to do right now than continue engaging in this childish discussion with you, so... bye.
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This.
 
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MattusMaximus said:
Please point out where I have "denied" anything that happened at Chernobyl.

And, for the record, comparing the current situation to Chernobyl is just plain ignorant. Do you even realize that the two reactors involved - Chernobyl and Fukushima - are of fundamentally different designs (which makes a huge difference)?
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And you don't have the Soviet System in Japan..and the way the Soviet System worked was a main cause of what happened at Chernobyl.
Let us just say that Nuclear Safety standards were rather sloppy in the Soviet Union.
 
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dudalb said:
And you don't have the Soviet System in Japan..and the way the Soviet System worked was a main cause of what happened at Chernobyl.
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No system is perfect, and I have to wonder why an obvious flaw in the backup system has failed in Japan. People in that company must have known the obvious there, that a tsunami could cause the backup system to fail. Such an obvious weakness would not have cost a lot to fix, or the plant should have been replaced with a more modern design that does not need an external cooling system in the case of an emergency shutdown.

The supporters of nuclear power in this thread, who are saying there is no real problem, are just in denial. There is a real problem, it could have been easily prevented, and it has set back the cause the implementing safe nuclear power, which I support, for years. Imagine what a positive boost it would have been for nuclear power if the proponents of nuclear power could have pointed out that the worst quake had resulted in no problems at all with nuclear power. That would have been a huge boost in public confidence, and it was achievable.
 
dudalb said:
And you don't have the Soviet System in Japan..and the way the Soviet System worked was a main cause of what happened at Chernobyl.
Let us just say that Nuclear Safety standards were rather sloppy in the Soviet Union.
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I bet a good quality safety audit of the nuclear plant would have raised the obvious question "what happens if a Tsunami hits here"? An obvious question, since coastal towns all over Japan have Tsunami warning systems.
 
The new footage is just too much to bear. You can see people driving, and then the water hits them. People screaming, children crying, oh those poor people.
 
a_unique_person said:
No system is perfect, and I have to wonder why an obvious flaw in the backup system has failed in Japan. People in that company must have known the obvious there, that a tsunami could cause the backup system to fail. Such an obvious weakness would not have cost a lot to fix, or the plant should have been replaced with a more modern design that does not need an external cooling system in the case of an emergency shutdown.

The supporters of nuclear power in this thread, who are saying there is no real problem, are just in denial. There is a real problem, it could have been easily prevented, and it has set back the cause the implementing safe nuclear power, which I support, for years. Imagine what a positive boost it would have been for nuclear power if the proponents of nuclear power could have pointed out that the worst quake had resulted in no problems at all with nuclear power. That would have been a huge boost in public confidence, and it was achievable.
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There is a logical fallacy in this long written screed of wrongedness. Anyone care to guess? As I all ready pointed out before other industries have had this same exact cascade failures of backup systems and most people don't bat an eye at their safety record. I'm not kidding either. When I wrote the airline post I was specifically thinking of an airline crash (I don't remember which one) which was caused by the failure of all triple redundant systems.
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In fact there are multiple logical fallacies beyond the one I'm actually thinking about. I can see the bare assertion fallacy that South Park actually spent a few episodes making fun of.
 
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a_unique_person said:
I bet a good quality safety audit of the nuclear plant would have raised the obvious question "what happens if a Tsunami hits here"? An obvious question, since coastal towns all over Japan have Tsunami warning systems.
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I think the plant was far enough inland so it the theory was that a tsunumi would not do serious damage to it.
 
CNN is reporting another explosion at the damaged Nuclear plant. Whether this is serious or more bad reporting remians to be seen.
 
CNN is reporting another nuclear plant had an explosion, and smoke is coming from the first one. Anderson Cooper interrupted the flow to ask what the wind was, how far they are from the plant, and can they get out of where they are?

He actually said on air, "Can we get out of here?".

Are they just trying to keep my eyeballs glued to their channel?
 
technoextreme said:
There is a logical fallacy in this long written screed of wrongedness. Anyone care to guess? As I all ready pointed out before other industries have had this same exact cascade failures of backup systems and most people don't bat an eye at their safety record. I'm not kidding either. When I wrote the airline post I was specifically thinking of an airline crash (I don't remember which one) which was caused by the failure of all triple redundant systems.
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Where was it triple redundant? They had a power system run by the mains, which in the event of an earthquake was likely to fail, since the reactors were shutting down themselves and going off the grid, and power distribution is also highly likely to fail. So primary failure of power is very likely.

Earthquakes are often associated with tsunamis in a place like Japan. The backup system was susceptible to tsunami inundation. So, once again a likely occurrence.

The battery backup was only good for a few hours. But in a major quake, it is likely that the main infrastructure would be down for an extended period of time.

In the event of a triple failure on a plane, all those systems are protecting against something that is unlikely.

The earthquake in Japan is rare, but highly likely. Everything else that follows from that point is also highly likely in the chain.
 
Oh you beat me to it! I didn't see the post right before mine. This ware should warn a girl before somebody slips one in on her.

Oh poodles, another one while I was writing this.
 
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Breaking News: New tsunami warning...

Soldiers and officials in northeastern Japan are warning residents that the area could be hit by another tsunami and are ordering residents to higher ground.

Sirens around the town of Soma went off late Monday morning and public address systems ordered residents to higher ground.

Kyodo News Agency said the tsunami could be 10 feet (3 meters) high, citing Fukushima prefectural officials.
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Here.
 
a_unique_person said:
Where was it triple redundant? They had a power system run by the mains, which in the event of an earthquake was likely to fail, since the reactors were shutting down themselves and going off the grid, and power distribution is also highly likely to fail. So primary failure of power is very likely.

Earthquakes are often associated with tsunamis in a place like Japan. The backup system was susceptible to tsunami inundation. So, once again a likely occurrence.

The battery backup was only good for a few hours. But in a major quake, it is likely that the main infrastructure would be down for an extended period of time.

In the event of a triple failure on a plane, all those systems are protecting against something that is unlikely.

The earthquake in Japan is rare, but highly likely. Everything else that follows from that point is also highly likely in the chain.
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Except for the fact that you are displaying quite an astounding ignorance of basic engineering. I'll give you a little hint here. They were designed to withstand an earthquake. They were designed to withstand a tsunami just like the redundant systems were designed to prevent an airline crash.
 
BenBurch said:
Hydrogen explosion is what they are saying.
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How much hydrogen do these things produce. As something that really isn't even close to being classified as an explosive it sure as hell did a heck of a lot of damage to the one plant.
 
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