General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[applecorped]

You're being satirical. Right?

 

[angrysoba]

indeed. israeli settlers getting killed is kinda like when someone chooses to live in a well-known flood-prone area.

we all feel bad for them when the flood does happen..every 10 years or so, but we also ask ourselves: "why the hell do they live there knowing the likelyhood of a tragedy?????"

i of course feel horrible for the settler kids, who were put in such a dangerous situation by their stupid and probably hateful parents.

So it must cause you a bit of cognitive dissonance to read this story and say that while the parents were dumb enough to live in a "flood-prone area" the kids were kinda sorta completely innocent I guess. Of course it also seems a little on the, how can I put this, patronising side of you to say that equate the agency of Palestinians to that of a flood.

 

[The Fool]

Clearly, an occupation requires boots on the ground, and Israel is not doing any of the things in Gaza which occupying powers must do.

clearly it doesn't. Sorry dude but try as you may you can't handwave the occupation of Gaza away by pulling back to the borders. Occupation has to do with effective control. Israel has effective control, they do what they want when they want to....fly over wander in wander out....you said yourself that if the Gaza/Egypt border was to become open without any controls then you think Israel should move in to make a buffer zone. You said even this would not be occupation because they would only have boots on the ground of a little bit of gaza.

so who's permission would Israel need to do this? answer is ....nobodies. why? Because Israel has effective control. They do what they want when they want...inside above and around Gaza....sorry son, can't handwave away the responsibility that comes with control.

This is yet another example of the double standard imposed on Israel, and even words well understood get new meanings solely to include Israel. Especially if they have negative connotations.

tell you what...if you want to continue this double standard whine why don't you provide an example? Show us a similar situation where it is not regarded as occupation.....an example rather than just another bleating session.

 

[Thunder]

So it must cause you a bit of cognitive dissonance to read this story and say that while the parents were dumb enough to live in a "flood-prone area" the kids were kinda sorta completely innocent I guess. Of course it also seems a little on the, how can I put this, patronising side of you to say that equate the agency of Palestinians to that of a flood.

a flood is a natural and expected occurrence, in low-lying areas by rivers and streams.

violence, while not condoned, is clearly a constant threat in a land that is occupied and has hundreds of thousands of illegally settled persons.

so yes, while not wished for, floods and violence against illegal settlers do happen.

one can mitigate this threat by moving away from low-lying areas, and moving away from illegal settlements.

 

[Sunstealer]

one can mitigate this threat by moving away from low-lying areas, and moving away from illegal settlements.

Only if you have that choice. The children didn't.

Now if the murders had killed the parents but not the children, would that be justifiable to you?

 

[Thunder]

clearly it doesn't. Sorry dude but try as you may you can't handwave the occupation of Gaza away by pulling back to the borders. Occupation has to do with effective control. Israel has effective control, they do what they want when they want to....fly over wander in wander out....you said yourself that if the Gaza/Egypt border was to become open without any controls then you think Israel should move in to make a buffer zone.

there is a good reason why its spelled "Occupation", with a capital "O".

not only that, but Israel's Occupation of Gaza is infact...legal.

it shall be legal until a final peace treaty is signed with the Palestinians, or until an agreement is signed with the Palestinians to make Gaza a seperate state.

but until such time occurs, Gaza remains Israeli-Occupied territory under Palestinian-autonomy.

 

[Sunstealer]

indeed. israeli settlers getting killed is kinda like when someone chooses to live in a well-known flood-prone area.

Should those who live in flood prone areas put up sea walls and defences to protect themselves? Your argument doesn't hold water.

 

[Thunder]

Should those who live in flood prone areas put up sea walls and defences to protect themselves? Your argument doesn't hold water.

using their own money? sure why not.

 

[WildCat]

clearly it doesn't. Sorry dude but try as you may you can't handwave the occupation of Gaza away by pulling back to the borders.

That's pretty much a textbook example of "ending an occupation".

Occupation has to do with effective control. Israel has effective control, they do what they want when they want to....fly over wander in wander out....

Which isn't what "control" means under Hague IV. What you describe is military superiority, not control. The US flew spy planes at will over the USSR for 40 years, does that mean the US was occupying the USSR?

I bet you can't find an example of a single "occupation" ever in which no "occupying" troops were actually in the country being occupied. Once again, here we are in a defintion of "occupation" which applies only to Israel, the double standard poster child.

you said yourself that if the Gaza/Egypt border was to become open without any controls then you think Israel should move in to make a buffer zone.

This is a flat-out lie. I said if the Muslim Brotherhood gained control in Egypt Israel woul;d have no choice but to re-occupy the Gaza-Egypt border, since the MB has said they would support Hamas.

You said even this would not be occupation because they would only have boots on the ground of a little bit of gaza.

I'm not going to quibble over hypothetical scenarios. The MB doesn't seem poised to take over Egypt at the moment.

so who's permission would Israel need to do this? answer is ....nobodies. why? Because Israel has effective control. They do what they want when they want...inside above and around Gaza....sorry son, can't handwave away the responsibility that comes with control.

In that case the US occupies the entire world, since no country can stand up to us. We could nuke Beijing tomorrow if we wanted, therefore the US is occupying China!

USA! USA! USA! USA!
Occupier of THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tell you what...if you want to continue this double standard whine why don't you provide an example? Show us a similar situation where it is not regarded as occupation.....an example rather than just another bleating session.

I already gave the definition of what an occupation is. And this isn't it.

 

[Thunder]

USA! USA! USA! USA!
Occupier of THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

now now, there's no need for that.

Wildcat- if the USA, the UN, and the EU all say that the Gaza Strip is still under Israeli Occupation, why are you calling them liars?

 

[NWO Sentryman]

Oh FFS, when was the last time Israel decided to round up Palestinians to be used as human mine clearance tools?

How many Palestinians have been worked to death as slave labour?

How many Palestinians have been rounded up into barns and burned alive?

 

[IDB87]

If Israel controls Gaza, what does that make Hamas?

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Wildcat- if the USA, the UN, and the EU all say that the Gaza Strip is still under Israeli Occupation, why are you calling them liars?

The lack of Israeli combat boots on Gaza soil might be a clue.

 

[Thunder]

If Israel controls Gaza, what does that make Hamas?

the ruling party of the autonomous Palestinian Authority in Gaza.




......keep scratchin' that head.

 

[WildCat]

If Israel controls Gaza, what does that make Hamas?

They're lackeys of the Jews, of course.

And yes, there's actually people on this very forum who claim this.

 

[Thunder]

They're lackeys of the Jews, of course.

And yes, there's actually people on this very forum who claim this.

Hamas are the "lackeys of the Jews"???

please provide evidence for anyone at JREF making such a silly statement.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

please provide evidence for anyone at JREF making such a silly statement.

I could probably guess who it was without even looking.

 

[IDB87]

the ruling party of the autonomous Palestinian Authority in Gaza.

Whose responsibilities entail...?

 

[The Fool]

The lack of Israeli combat boots on Gaza soil might be a clue.

yes...thats the chant you guys have chosen....except even if there were a few combat boots in there you would still be happy to award the "non occupied" award.

what stops Israel from walking into gaza today? maybe stay around for a few hours and leave? answer is ....nothing. They could do it today, tomorrow...anytime. You would still be happy to say not occupied. Overflying?....no problems. Wildcat says even if Israel was to enter parts of Gaza to seal off the border with Egypt it would still be not occupied.

You may have expected that Israels moving of troops to the borders would have convinced the world that they are not in control of what happens to Gaza.....well, it certainly was enough for those that habitually stand to attention and salute israeli actions to stand to attention and salute.


Now please explain to everyone how you standing to attention, saluting and chanting the "no boots" chant makes any difference to the occupation status of Gaza?

 

[Thunder]

Whose responsibilities entail...?

uh huh.....yeaaahhhhh...