Merged 8.8 quake in Sendai, Japan

[Skeptic Ginger]

It would appear someone has already created a hoax about the nuclear radiation threat.

Possible Fukushima Nuclear Fallout Projections For the U.S. Based on Wind Patterns, Meltdown Confirmed

As usual, the comments are hilarious.

DL Rover says:
March 12, 2011 at 12:39 pm
They finally got their nuclear disaster! Even without waging an artificially created war with Iran…
Yet with a little bit of help from HAARP maybe?

HAARP

There are dozens of CTs about HAARP. Jess Ventura did a ridiculous program on it.

And the Spaceweather.com web site has been inundated with people asking if yesterday's auroral activity was related to the quake.

COINCIDENCES: Many readers have asked if this week's terrible earthquake in Japan was connected to the contemporaneous geomagnetic storms of March 10th and 11th. In short, no. There is no known, credible evidence of solar activity triggering earthquakes. Moreover, in the historical record, there are thousands of examples of geomagnetic storms without earthquakes, and similar numbers of earthquakes without geomagnetic storms. The two phenomena are not linked.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

What on earth are you talking about?

I just noticed your avatar. Are you surfing on the tsunami?

 

[icerat]

http://totallycoolpix.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11032011_japan_earthquake/japan_064.jpg

that wave out the back ......

 

[Hindmost]

So they are dumping seawater on the container itself to try to cool it?

I am assuming they are trying to get some water into the plant. If you look at the picture below, the emergency pumps will not be avaible without either onsite diesel power or offsite connection to the grid. Therefore, they can't flood the core. They can fill up containment with a fire truck and seawater most likely. This is why I think it is a last ditch effort and it won't get water into the core where is needed. Under normal circumstances, the diesels would fire up and pump water into the reactor vessel and initiate containment cooling to spray down any steam bubble. Indications are the diesels failed--perhaps due to water intrusion---so, the safety systems would not be available. Not a good thing. Loss of both diesels in a plant is outside normal safety analysis.




http://www.nrc.gov/images/bwrsm.jpg

For information: Generation III+ passive plants wouldn't have the same problem... the diesels are not needed for safety due to the passive safety system design.

glenn

 

[zooterkin]

Hey zooterkin, when's the tsunami going to hit our coastline? Should I go down to the beach and check it out? Will it be more than millimetres? Will the sea go out further or anything?

No idea, sorry, but it is an interesting question.

 

[Puppycow]

Has it? I'd like to believe that's the case, but I'm not clear that people had sufficient time to evacuate the affected area. How much difference did the warnings make, does anyone know?

Rolfe.

What probably helped was preparing evacuation routes and conducting evacuation drills ahead of time. From what I knew before this earthquake, all these towns had tsunami preparedness plans that included preparing evacuation routes and conducting evacuation drills. It's clear that at least some people had time to evacuate to higher ground, but others did not. People may have known as soon as the earthquake hit to head for higher ground without waiting to hear a siren or official announcement to evacuate.

ETA: at the end of this video you can see one of the evacuation ramps, which the person taking the video is standing on.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12722026

 

[catsmate]

I hope those weren't storing beer!

Now that would be a tragedy.

They appears to be fermentation towers, hence the foamy liquid on the ground
Only a few million litres though..........

 

[manofthesea]

How long did you spend in Japan before forming this conclusion?

My wife's family immigrated from there. They still speak Japanese. They told me why their families left there and it has not changed.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

What probably helped was preparing evacuation routes and conducting evacuation drills ahead of time. From what I knew before this earthquake, all these towns had tsunami preparedness plans that included preparing evacuation routes and conducting evacuation drills. It's clear that at least some people had time to evacuate to higher ground, but others did not. People may have known as soon as the earthquake hit to head for higher ground without waiting to hear a siren or official announcement to evacuate.

There are so few people in the videos, and the Japanese are well aware of tsunami risks. You have to think lots of people had time to get out of the way. But still it was only minutes for some people. CNN just showed an interview of a young mother who ran to safety with her infant. She said she couldn't reach the school which was the evacuation site but she reached a foot bridge where other people were.

 

[manofthesea]

Local response after 1995 Kobe earthquake:

I remember vividly the photos of families sitting on piles of rubble a week after the earthquake, waiting for assistance in finding their family members.

I don't know what all those 'volunteers' were doing. Where and what are those masses of volunteers doing now. Please tell me.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

It is extremely unlikely that a steam explosion occured because the plants were scrammed and the heat production just isn't enough to cause that type of transient.

Glad you weighed in with that. I had read elsewhere on the net some self-styled "experts" (i.e. "idiots") saying that it looked like a steam explosion to them.

It is possible, but in this case, I'm certain it was people who don't know what they are talking about flapping their lips.

 

[Travis]

CNN is reporting the explosion was definitely from the pumping system and that the containment and reactor vessel are still intact.

By the way it seems that several diesel generators failed at this and the sister nuclear plant down the road. I'm wondering if they got sold lemons and someone failed to do a quality control check on them.

 

[Hindmost]

It would appear someone has already created a hoax about the nuclear radiation threat.

Possible Fukushima Nuclear Fallout Projections For the U.S. Based on Wind Patterns, Meltdown Confirmed

As usual, the comments are hilarious.



HAARP

There are dozens of CTs about HAARP. Jess Ventura did a ridiculous program on it.

And the Spaceweather.com web site has been inundated with people asking if yesterday's auroral activity was related to the quake.

the comments make me sad...we just aren't there yet on science education. And probably never will be.

glenn

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

My wife's family immigrated from there. They still speak Japanese. They told me why their families left there and it has not changed.

And yet the stereotype you described is completely inconsistent with all the evidence. It's inconsistent with my trip to Japan, with my Japanese friends, with the young woman who ran with her infant I just described and the help the people on the foot bridge gave her, the warning her neighbor yelled to her that warned her just in time, and the response one sees on the news now, in every interview and in all the footage.

I'd say your wife's bitterness is sad considering it is based on falsehoods.

 

[Puppycow]

http://totallycoolpix.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11032011_japan_earthquake/japan_064.jpg

that wave out the back ......

The tsunami waves themselves aren't so tall like in the Hollywood disaster movies. It's more like the ocean itself just pours onto the land.

 

[manofthesea]

And yet the stereotype you described is completely inconsistent with all the evidence. It's inconsistent with my trip to Japan, with my Japanese friends, with the young woman who ran with her infant I just described and the help the people on the foot bridge gave her, the warning her neighbor yelled to her that warned her just in time, and the response one sees on the news now, in every interview and in all the footage.

I'd say your wife's bitterness is sad considering it is based on falsehoods.

My wife hates Japanese. That's besides the point.

They don't have a social system that is comparable to the west. Period. Never have and never will.

If you love it so much why don't you buy land there? Wait, you can't.

 

[Soapy Sam]

By the way it seems that several diesel generators failed at this and the sister nuclear plant down the road. I'm wondering if they got sold lemons and someone failed to do a quality control check on them.

More likely they got water in them- or in the fuel. What we lack (or I have not seen) is a report of what tsunami damage the power station infrastructure may have taken. If they were hit with the sort of debris wave we have seen sweeping across towns and fields, then it's easy to understand why backup systems failed. They may have ruptured fuel lines, fuel tanks underwater, anything. Backup diesel generators and pumps are pretty reliable- and they would have regular test schedules.

 

[jayh]

And yet the stereotype you described is completely inconsistent with all the evidence. It's inconsistent with my trip to Japan, with my Japanese friends, with the young woman who ran with her infant I just described and the help the people on the foot bridge gave her, the warning her neighbor yelled to her that warned her just in time, and the response one sees on the news now, in every interview and in all the footage.

I'd say your wife's bitterness is sad considering it is based on falsehoods.

His statement seems to be confusing the social pressure in Japan for group concensus (avoidance of individuality) with lack of concern for the individual. Totally different.

Japanese emergency services are second to none. If I were to suffer a stroke or heart attack while traveling, Japan would be one of the best places to be.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I remember vividly the photos of families sitting on piles of rubble a week after the earthquake, waiting for assistance in finding their family members.

I don't know what all those 'volunteers' were doing. Where and what are those masses of volunteers doing now. Please tell me.

Well here's part of the problem, you have no clue how hard it is to get help in these disasters. Have you not noticed the same problems you describe occurred in every similar disaster to date from Katrina to Haiti to the floods in Pakistan? You might as well say no peoples care about their individuals.

Our fire department has a program to prepare neighborhoods for a major earthquake. The number one principle is expect no help for at least 3 days. The roads will be gone, the normal infrastructure that assists people will be overwhelmed.

Look at the mess the tsunami left on Japan's coast. How do you even start getting survivors out? There is one solid massive pile of rubble. They don't have any semblance of roads left in that massive mess.


Too many John Wayne movies, too many fantasy disaster movies, not enough reality experience, that's what I think leads people to believe rescue should be instant and magical.

 

[Hindmost]

Glad you weighed in with that. I had read elsewhere on the net some self-styled "experts" (i.e. "idiots") saying that it looked like a steam explosion to them.

It is possible, but in this case, I'm certain it was people who don't know what they are talking about flapping their lips.

A steam type explosion in a reactor will occur if the plant is running at high power and there is something like a loss of coolant flow and the reactor doesn't trip right away...the reactor would heat the water very fast and explode. Of course, when they blow all their water out, the reactor shuts itself down and can't be cooled anymore. This is why we have emergency systems available to flood the core--wjhich appear to be unavailable in this plant right now. The steam explosion type thing--but not exactly the same-- happened at SL-1 in Idaho a long time ago--that reactor set the high jump record. Commercial reactors really can't have the same type of problem as they won't go prompt critcal and hit several thousand percent power...this happened at Chernobyl due to its terrible design.

A commercial plant can have a steam line break which is very nasty as it releases a bunch of energy quickly...but has also never occured...thank the ASME for that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SL-1

glenn