Merged 8.8 quake in Sendai, Japan

[zooterkin]

They seem to have stopped giving these ridiculous death toll figures though. Saying 29 dead, or "the death toll has been raised to 45" and so on was pretty silly when we could all see the massive extent of the destruction. Even figures in the hundreds re obviously unrealistic. This is going to be in the tens of thousands, at least.

I think those would have been the official figures, and I suspect, given the natural conservatism of the Japanese, that they would have been the actual number of people known to be dead rather than an estimate of likely casualties. Maybe the media are more used to dealing with places where the authorities are prone to speculate, so hadn't yet adjusted their reporting to account for the obvious discrepancy.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I recall hearing 20,000 to 30,000 dead in the first couple days after 9/11.

We won't have a real idea until maybe sunday or monday.

 

[plumjam]

Kill thousands all to keep the Earth livable? Seriously? That's the best design an omnipotent god could come up with?

I'm surprised you would continue to worship such a dufus.

Death is part of the system, and a good job too. Otherwise things would get pretty crowded pretty quick.

If you would prefer your death not to be earthquake related, don't live in an earthquake zone.

 

[Puppycow]

As I said, I do not believe that this was the containment vessel we saw being obliterated.

They are saying on the TV right now that the containment vessel is intact.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

They are saying on the TV right now that the containment vessel is intact.

Somewhat good news.

Now I'd like to hear that what was in the building that got obliterated wasn't critical to the damage control efforts underway at the plant since the quake.

 

[Skwinty]

The guys on my email list are up late tonight. I've asked them what they know about Japans containment vessels. I will relay anything they tell me.

Thanks, I have only looked at photographs of Fukishima and this site does not appear to have concrete containment buildings.

I am not referring to the reactor vessel only the exterior building.

Because Chernobyl didn't have a western style containment vessel.

I realise this, but it seems that Fukishima is in the same category.
ETA: As far as the containment building is concerned.

If there was sufficient energy to do what we observed to a building designed to take better than a barrage from the USS Missouri and keep standing, shredding it completely from the inside out, then we are talking some serious blast energy here.

The Westinghouse/Framatome design concrete buildings can withstand the impact of a 747 crashing into them, so they are extremely strong and would withstand a hydrogen explosion without disintergrating as Fukishima did.

It would be difficult for a reactor running at full power to do this(Chernobyl experienced a brief burst of 250 times it's normal operating power level just before its blast), let alone one that has been shut down as Fukushima was.

As I said, I do not believe that this was the containment vessel we saw being obliterated.

I would imagine that there was a breech in the cooling pipe work in the reactor building. This would cause the core to be uncovered which in turn would cause the fuel to melt.

This would produce hydrogen in the building. If the hydrogen exploded, the non standard building would blow apart, as did Chernobyl.

I suspect that the reactor vessel would still be intact.

Disclaimer:My experience is with PWR technology and not BWR technology.

Either way, a nuclear disaster.

 

[catsmate]

BBC News as of 10:24 GMT says:

Japanese officials fear a meltdown at one of the plant's reactors after radioactive material was detected outside it.

However this appears to be caesium rather than HRF material.

 

[erwinl]

This video from a helicopter is incredible. The wave just keeps going and going relentlessly swallowing up everything in its path:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12709850

This is a Japanese TV channel's site but it has an amazing video from Kamaishi, yet another seaside town in Iwate.

http://www.news24.jp/articles/2011/03/12/07178020.html
(You have to click the video to start it)

It looks like the people in this town had enough of a warning to get up to higher ground. I hope at least they didn't suffer any casualties.

What is remarkable is that you can't see the frothing sea coming into the harbour/bay. The water there is almost entirely wave free. It just rises and rises and rises.

 

[Skwinty]

BBC News as of 10:24 GMT says:
However this appears to be caesium rather than HRF material.

Cesium and iodine are the radio isotopes that are airborne and detected.

If the reactor vesssel is intact, as I suspect it would be as the fuel does not explode, then you would not expect to find lumps of fuel flying around as it did in Chernobyl.

 

[a_unique_person]

Where does the hydrogen come from?

 

[Skwinty]

Where does the hydrogen come from?

If the top of the reactor core is exposed and the intense heat caused a reaction to occur between the steam forming in the reactor core and the Zircaloy nuclear fuel rod cladding, yielding zirconium dioxide, hydrogen, and additional heat.

 

[GlennB]

I would imagine that there was a breech in the cooling pipe work in the reactor building. This would cause the core to be uncovered which in turn would cause the fuel to melt.

This would produce hydrogen in the building. If the hydrogen exploded, the non standard building would blow apart, as did Chernobyl.

I suspect that the reactor vessel would still be intact.

This is the current pov of studio pundits on the news channels. There are apparently reports emanating from the plant operators that a 'reactor ceiling has collapsed' but again the studio pundits are pointing out that this is ambiguous.

 

[a_unique_person]

So a possible partial meltdown is an accurate claim by the Japanese press?

 

[Soapy Sam]

[nitpick]That's a cubic meter.[/nitpick]

Further nitpick- seawater density varies, but always exceeds 1.0g/cc.
A cubic metre of fresh water weighs between 1000kg and about 1004kg, depending on temperature.

Meanwhile, back at the thread, I would like to express my simple admiration for the work of many Japanese engineers and scientists in design and construction of the infrastructure which saved perhaps hundreds of thousands of lives yesterday.

Appalling as it has been,- and of course we have no realistic numbers yet - the loss of life could have been so very much worse, were it not for decades of painstaking work by many people.

And I include the designers of the reactors in this. An 8.9 quake and tsunami- If that happened in the middle of the North Sea, I can't begin to imagine what would happen to the coastal cities of Europe.

 

[Puppycow]

Here's an article that explains what is known about the explosion at present:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/world/asia/13nuclear.html?_r=1&hp

 

[Skwinty]

So a possible partial meltdown is an accurate claim by the Japanese press?

I would imagine that this is accurate. How else does the building explode?

If they cannot get cooling water to the core, it will soon be a full core meltdown.

The reactor vessel will follow shortly in the melting process then.
Hopefully this will not happen otherwise the China syndrome folks will have a field day.

I cannot watch the drama unfold on the TV any more as it is upsetting my wife and she has taken command of the remote control.

 

[gumboot]

We won't have a real idea until maybe sunday or monday.

The Christchurch quake was over two and a half weeks ago and we still don't have a figure.

 

[alfaniner]

Apparently, "BREAKING NEWS!!!" isn't sensational enough any more. Now it has to be "URGENT!!!!!!"

 

[a_unique_person]

I would imagine that this is accurate. How else does the building explode?

If they cannot get cooling water to the core, it will soon be a full core meltdown.

Getting cooling water to the core looks to be impossible from the current pictures. The explosion might not have destroyed the container, but it will have wrecked the cooling infrastructure.

 

[zooterkin]

Japan has moved by 8 feet, apparently.

(CNN) -- The powerful earthquake that unleashed a devastating tsunami Friday appears to have moved the main island of Japan by 8 feet (2.4 meters) and shifted the Earth on its axis.

"At this point, we know that one GPS station moved (8 feet), and we have seen a map from GSI (Geospatial Information Authority) in Japan showing the pattern of shift over a large area is consistent with about that much shift of the land mass," said Kenneth Hudnut, a geophysicist with the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS).

Reports from the National Institute of Geophysics and Volcanology in Italy estimated the 8.9-magnitude quake shifted the planet on its axis by nearly 4 inches (10 centimeters).