Protests in Wisconsin - Scott Walker

[dirtywick]

It'll be interesting where the public falls on this.

I personally know people who support(ed?) Walker based on budgetary issues; collective bargaining was a part of it, and it makes sense because they could just threaten strike to undo any concessions when the economy recovers. I don't agree with that, as when the economy recovers they probably should get them back as the concessions are a temporary measure anyway, but I could understand how the two are entwined. Others were upset with the Dems leaving town. Some are just Republicans no matter what, but you see enough of that on this board to know where they stand. Not sure how the others feel now, however, with the way it's played out.

More on point, in my local area the Kohler company was negotiating with the union over a new contract that was a lot worse than anything the state union was being offered at any point, and a lot of state union workers were nowhere to be found. The media and a big part of the public including some state union guys weren't supportive of them at the time because "they are just factory workers who should be happy they have jobs at all" and "they've overpaid anyway" and things along that line, same stuff you're hearing now really. I know the Kohler union provided their hall and materials to the state union workers, but I don't know how the Kohler guys think about this personally outside of the few I've asked (which is a mixed bag), especially since they had to give up a quite a bit in the end. There was even an editorial piece at the UW school I attend and some professors are quoted in the paper saying they support Walker.

Anyway, recall is tough. They'll need a lot of people on their side. Tough to know if they'll get it, but after this week it's about as good as it'll get.

 

[dudalb]

Pyrrhic victory. Seems foolish to celebrate it.

People who supported Walker on the issue of Public Employee concessions on benefits have been alienated by his Heavy Handed tactics. Quite a few GOP oriented political commentators think Walker, in his bid for national attention, mishandled the situation .
Neither side looks good. I thought the Dem walkout was childish, but Walker managed to throw away a lot of the high ground he might have had. I think there is probably a "Plague On Both Your Houses" attitude among a lot of people in Wisconsin.
The recall will fail, but what is has done is stop the MOmentum the GOP had, and if the tax credits Walker has given in Industry does not result in a bunch of new jobs quick, he is in trouble.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

It'll be interesting where the public falls on this.

I personally know people who support(ed?) Walker based on budgetary issues; collective bargaining was a part of it, and it makes sense because they could just threaten strike to undo any concessions when the economy recovers. I don't agree with that, as when the economy recovers they probably should get them back as the concessions are a temporary measure anyway, but I could understand how the two are entwined. Others were upset with the Dems leaving town. Some are just Republicans no matter what, but you see enough of that on this board to know where they stand. Not sure how the others feel now, however, with the way it's played out.

More on point, in my local area the Kohler company was negotiating with the union over a new contract that was a lot worse than anything the state union was being offered at any point, and a lot of state union workers were nowhere to be found. The media and a big part of the public including some state union guys weren't supportive of them at the time because "they are just factory workers who should be happy they have jobs at all" and "they've overpaid anyway" and things along that line, same stuff you're hearing now really. I know the Kohler union provided their hall and materials to the state union workers, but I don't know how the Kohler guys think about this personally outside of the few I've asked (which is a mixed bag), especially since they had to give up a quite a bit in the end. There was even an editorial piece at the UW school I attend and some professors are quoted in the paper saying they support Walker.

Anyway, recall is tough. They'll need a lot of people on their side. Tough to know if they'll get it, but after this week it's about as good as it'll get.

The polls before the Repub move to defy public opinion were for recall of at least 2 state senators. And now the polls show sentiment is well beyond that needed to motivate a recall.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

People who supported Walker on the issue of Public Employee concessions on benefits have been alienated by his Heavy Handed tactics. Quite a few GOP oriented political commentators think Walker, in his bid for national attention, mishandled the situation .
Neither side looks good. I thought the Dem walkout was childish, but Walker managed to throw away a lot of the high ground he might have had. I think there is probably a "Plague On Both Your Houses" attitude among a lot of people in Wisconsin.
The recall will fail, but what is has done is stop the MOmentum the GOP had, and if the tax credits Walker has given in Industry does not result in a bunch of new jobs quick, he is in trouble.

Childish? So are filibusters also childish in your opinion?

It was a tactic. It gave the public time to react to an action that at the time most people in the state were not aware was happening.


And on what basis other than your wishful thinking do you claim the recall will fail? Let me guess, you believe the spin that all that emotion in the protesting crowds at the capital are some sort of leftist organization while the Wisconsinites are mostly indifferent about the events in their own state.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

You got that right

You're in the wrong forum. We value critical thinking here. Trolls are a fail.

 

[Emperor_Gestahl]

People who supported Walker on the issue of Public Employee concessions on benefits have been alienated by his Heavy Handed tactics.

Which tactics? Passing a non-budgetary bill in the most normal possible way?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Yes and if he is recalled, WI will continue to lose private sector jobs.

The unions will be paid well, for a while.

[snipped the immature tripe]

WI Repub admits on camera the goal of gutting the unions was to assure Obama wouldn't get any campaign funding from unions and would therefore lose in WI. How do you figure this has anything to do with jobs?

WI GOPer admits goal is to defund unions, reduce Obama's chances in 2012

WI Senate GOP Leader Admits On-Air That His Goal Is To Defund Labor Unions, Hurt Obama’s Reelection Chances

 

[DavidJames]

WI Repub admits on camera the goal of gutting the unions was to assure Obama wouldn't get any campaign funding from unions and would therefore lose in WI. How do you figure this has anything to do with jobs?

WI GOPer admits goal is to defund unions, reduce Obama's chances in 2012

WI Senate GOP Leader Admits On-Air That His Goal Is To Defund Labor Unions, Hurt Obama’s Reelection Chances

I think the only people surprised by this might be the Republican/conservative "skeptics" on this board who posted constantly about how this was all about saving the beleaguered state of Wisconsin.

Although, I suspect if honesty would prevail, there is no surprise.

 

[thaiboxerken]

WI Repub admits on camera the goal of gutting the unions was to assure Obama wouldn't get any campaign funding from unions and would therefore lose in WI. How do you figure this has anything to do with jobs?

WI GOPer admits goal is to defund unions, reduce Obama's chances in 2012

WI Senate GOP Leader Admits On-Air That His Goal Is To Defund Labor Unions, Hurt Obama’s Reelection Chances

It is amazing that people would actually still think that this is about fiscal issues...

 

[EatatJoes]

WI Repub admits on camera the goal of gutting the unions was to assure Obama wouldn't get any campaign funding from unions and would therefore lose in WI. How do you figure this has anything to do with jobs?

WI GOPer admits goal is to defund unions, reduce Obama's chances in 2012

WI Senate GOP Leader Admits On-Air That His Goal Is To Defund Labor Unions, Hurt Obama’s Reelection Chances

I read the first link. Isn't it possible that the senator sees the potential to hurt Obama's chances a happy side-effect versus the "real" goal of stripping collective bargaining rights?

 

[thaiboxerken]

I read the first link. Isn't it possible that the senator sees the potential to hurt Obama's chances a happy side-effect versus the "real" goal of stripping collective bargaining rights?

Your question makes little sense, as one is a means and the other is the goal. Also, Rove already outlined the GOP plan to destroy unions in order to concentrate Republican political power.

 

[tyr_13]

People who supported Walker on the issue of Public Employee concessions on benefits have been alienated by his Heavy Handed tactics. Quite a few GOP oriented political commentators think Walker, in his bid for national attention, mishandled the situation .
Neither side looks good. I thought the Dem walkout was childish, but Walker managed to throw away a lot of the high ground he might have had. I think there is probably a "Plague On Both Your Houses" attitude among a lot of people in Wisconsin.
The recall will fail, but what is has done is stop the MOmentum the GOP had, and if the tax credits Walker has given in Industry does not result in a bunch of new jobs quick, he is in trouble.

I basically agree, with the exception that I think the initial walkout was a good idea, in that it would draw lots of attention and give time to energize protesters for example. After that point it became 'less defensible', to understate it greatly.

 

[BeAChooser]

http://conservativeamerican.org/dem...ageous-things-wisconsin-protesters-stand-for/

19 Outrageous Things Wisconsin Protesters Stand For

… snip …

- A Year’s Worth of Pay for 30 Days of Work – Under the Green Bay School District’s collectively bargained Emeritus Program, teaches can retire and receive a year’s worth of salary for working only 30 days over a three year period. This is paid in addition to their already guaranteed pension and health care payouts. At the average annual salary for a Green Bay teacher of $51,355, this amounts to a daily rate of pay of $1,711.83, or an hourly rate of $213.98. Since most retiring teachers receive higher than average salary, these amounts are, in practice, much higher.

And it's worse than that.

- Almost $10,000 Per Year for Doing Nothing!!! – While the Green Bay Emeritus Program actually requires teachers to at least show up for work, the Madison Emeritus Program doesn’t even require that!! In addition to their pension payouts, retired Madison public school teachers receive annual payments of at least $9,884.18 per year for enrolling in the Emeritus Program, which requires ZERO days of work. When this program began, 20 days of work per year were required. Through collective bargaining, the union successfully negotiated this down to zero days. Walker’s Source? The Madison Teachers Inc. Website.

Now isn't that a sweet deal. But who was representing *us* in that so-called *bargaining*?

But it's even worse:

- $6,000 Extra for Carrying a Pager – Some state employees, due to the nature of their positions, are required to carry pagers during off-duty hours in order to respond to emergency situations. Due to the collective bargaining agreements, these employees are compensated an extra five hours of pay each week, whether they are paged or not. For an employee earning an average salary of $50,000 per year, this requirement can cost more than $6,000 in additional compensation. Source: 2008-09 Agreement between the State of Wisconsin and AFSCME Council

Now my wife is on call 24/7. She carries her phone with her everywhere she goes. Now why can she get such a sweeeeet deal? Oh that's right … she doesn't have a democrat politician doing the bargaining against her in *negotiations*.

And that's not all:

The $150,000 Bus Driver – … snip …. In 2009, the City of Madison’s highest paid employee was a bus driver who earned $159,258, including $109,892 in overtime, guaranteed by a collective bargaining agreement. In total, seven City of Madison bus drivers made more than $100,000 per year in 2009. “That’s the (drivers’) contract,” said Transit and Parking Commission Chairman Gary Poulson. Source: Wisconsin State Journal, 2/7/10

Seems to me, most businesses could have hired 3 drivers for that much money. But then most businesses don't have the boss of the company *negotiating* FOR the union members. It's a bit more adversarial. As it should be.

And that's not all.

But I leave it to you to read the other 15 outrageous things that Wisconsin protestors stand for.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I read the first link. Isn't it possible that the senator sees the potential to hurt Obama's chances a happy side-effect versus the "real" goal of stripping collective bargaining rights?

Not likely considering the other evidence, the unions agreed to requested cutbacks, and, the entire "unions never agree to cutbacks" claim is also a big lie.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

http://conservativeamerican.org/dem...ageous-things-wisconsin-protesters-stand-for/



And it's worse than that.



Now isn't that a sweet deal. But who was representing *us* in that so-called *bargaining*?

But it's even worse:



Now my wife is on call 24/7. She carries her phone with her everywhere she goes. Now why can she get such a sweeeeet deal? Oh that's right … she doesn't have a democrat politician doing the bargaining against her in *negotiations*.

And that's not all:



Seems to me, most businesses could have hired 3 drivers for that much money. But then most businesses don't have the boss of the company *negotiating* FOR the union members. It's a bit more adversarial. As it should be.

And that's not all.

But I leave it to you to read the other 15 outrageous things that Wisconsin protestors stand for.

That link is full of one lie after another. It's not credible.

 

[Thunder]

Quote:
The $150,000 Bus Driver – … snip …. In 2009, the City of Madison’s highest paid employee was a bus driver who earned $159,258, including $109,892 in overtime, guaranteed by a collective bargaining agreement. In total, seven City of Madison bus drivers made more than $100,000 per year in 2009. “That’s the (drivers’) contract,” said Transit and Parking Commission Chairman Gary Poulson. Source: Wisconsin State Journal, 2/7/10

wait...so you don't want Americans to get paid for hours that they work?

huh. when did Conservatives become soo anti-Capitalist?

 

[BeAChooser]

wait...so you don't want Americans to get paid for hours that they work?

Nah, I just want government to spend it's money as efficiently as private companies. A company that was spending $150,000 a year for driving a bus would find another way to meet the need.

 

[Thunder]

Nah, I just want government to spend it's money as efficiently as private companies.

yeah, hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses to banks and other companies that FAIL, never mind their ridiculously bloated yearly salaries. oh, and don't forget the multi-billion dollar tax-payer bail-outs required for their survival.

that's sooo efficient. they should surely teach a class on business & economics.

 

[deepatrax]

yeah, hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses to banks and other companies that FAIL, never mind their ridiculously bloated yearly salaries. oh, and don't forget the multi-billion dollar tax-payer bail-outs required for their survival.

that's sooo efficient. they should surely teach a class on business & economics.

I blame Obama. course I didn't vote for the guy...

 

[BeAChooser]

yeah, hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses to banks and other companies that FAIL

Compared to the TRILLIONS the government has spent for programs that FAILED ...