General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

[IDB87]

um.....why?

dude...what is the present-day context of this law?

what sorta events in Israel have inspired this law?

you do understand what context is, and how it shapes the debate around proposed laws...right?

The present day 'context' is provided by groups like the BDS who have support (not full material support as they would like) from citizens of Israel.

You have a real problem with talking down to other posters, especially when you haven't done the least bit of research outside of (1) article you posted, which apparently you didn't fully read.

 

[bikerdruid]

If you don't hate anyone then why are you trying to draw attention away from Hamas's plan to commit genocide?

how and when have i done that?
and i believe that hamas has no plans for genocide, but to destroy the state of israel.
that does not mean that they plan to kill all the jews.

will you answer the question?
why do you hate arabs so?

 

[Thunder]

You have a real problem with talking down to other posters

I'm sorry.

 

[Thunder]

how and when have i done that?
and i believe that hamas has no plans for genocide, but to destroy the state of israel.
that does not mean that they plan to kill all the jews.

meanwhile, the Israeli Knesset still can't muster the courage and honesty to pass a resolution remembering the Armenian genocide (or even just the massacres & ethnic cleansing) at the hands of the Ottoman Empire.

Why..oh why...do the Israelis hate the Armenians soo?




...just thought I'd mention that. No need to thank me.

 

[bikerdruid]

meanwhile, the Israeli Knesset still can't muster the courage and honesty to pass a resolution remembering the Armenian genocide (or even just the massacres & ethnic cleansing) at the hands of the Ottoman Empire.

...just thought I'd mention that. No need to thank me.

an interesting bit of trivia...

can you say 'hypoctites'?

 

[Thunder]

an interesting bit of trivia...

can you say 'hypocrites'?

no no!!! we cannot call Israelis hypocrites!!! its a no-no!!

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

and i believe that hamas has no plans for genocide,

The Day of Judgement will not come until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say, ‘O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.

That's straight from the Hamas charter.

Lie to me again, BD and tell me that Hamas has no plans for genocide.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

meanwhile, the Israeli Knesset still can't muster the courage and honesty to pass a resolution remembering the Armenian genocide

When did it become Israels responsibility to memorialize something the Ottoman Empire did?

And what does this have to do with Hamas's stated intent to carry out genocide in the future?

You have an odd definition of hypocrisy that seems to apply uniquely to jewish states.

 

[bikerdruid]

The Day of Judgement will not come until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say, ‘O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.

That's straight from the Hamas charter.

Lie to me again, BD and tell me that Hamas has no plans for genocide.

sorry, but i do not believe you.

 

[Thunder]

sorry, but i do not believe you.

stones & trees don't talk, so its kind of a moot point.



I'd still like to know why we should be concerned about Hamas' supposed call for genocide, through the mouths of rocks & trees .....when Israel doesn't even have the honesty and courage to officially honor and remember the Armenian genocide at the hands of the Ottomans?

Imagine if some country refused to acknowledge the reality of the Holocaust, simply because they did not want to offend the Germans? Can you imagine the international outcry?

 

[bikerdruid]

When did it become Israels responsibility to memorialize something the Ottoman Empire did?

you miss the point.
this is more than failure to memorialize, but it is denial...
you know....like holocaust denial...

 

[WildCat]

sorry, but i do not believe you.

Read it yourself right here: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

It's in Article 7.

Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).
​

 

[Thunder]

err.......talking trees and rocks do not frighten me.

but states refusing to acknowledge the genocide of other fellow human beings, while demanding that the world honor, remember, and acknowledge THEIR genocide on a yearly basis, is frightening.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

sorry, but i do not believe you.

You couldn't possibly look up Hamas Charter on google or wikipedia, could you?

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

Article Seven contains the pledge to kill jews until the trees scream.

That's not the only thing in there that's completely psychotic. Article 8 lays out Hamas's official motto:

Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes. ​

Normal people hope for prosperity and harmony with neighbors and surroundings, Hamas, by their own statements, thinks death is the best they can get. Ours... theirs... they don't care.

Article 31 describes how to attain peace:

Under the wing of Islam, it is possible for the followers of the three religions - Islam, Christianity and Judaism - to coexist in peace and quiet with each other. Peace and quiet would not be possible except under the wing of Islam.​

So allow Hamas to set up a theocratic state where all are beholden to islam... or there will be war. You can tell your friends in Hamas that I'm happy living under a secular government that treats all religions equally.

Article 32 recommends some light reading:

The Zionist plan is limitless. After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying.​

Gee... I wonder what happens if we set up a national government based on the idea that The Protocols are anything but a plagiarized pile of racist BS? Has that ever actually happened before?

The Hamas Charter isn't a statement of principle. It isn't a cry for freedom on behalf of the oppressed, it's a paranoid scream of impotent rage from the serial killer wing of a supermax prison.

And you defend them, Bikerdruid.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

err.......talking trees and rocks do not frighten me.

We're not talking about talking trees, we're talking about iranian funded terrorist groups with heavy artillery weapons.

but states refusing to acknowledge the genocide of other fellow human beings,

Israel has never committed or participated in genocide. The Ottoman/Armenian genocides are not their responsibility.

 

[bikerdruid]

And you defend them, Bikerdruid.

please show where i have ever 'defended' hamas.
other than my previous post, i don't think i have even mentioned them.
they are just another government.

all governments suck.

it is the palestinian people i defend. not their leaders.
since arafat, they have been in need of strong and moral leadership.

please answer my question.....why do you hate arabs so?

 

[WildCat]

since arafat, they have been in need of strong and moral leadership.

So you think Arafat, who socked away billions in aid meant for the Palestinian people into his Swiss bank account, was a "strong and moral leader"?

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

please answer my question.....why do you hate arabs so?

I was a little too subtle the last time I pointed this out, even the mods missed it. I won't make that mistake again.

This is a "Loaded Question". A logical fallacy used to prop up a weak position by forcing the other side on the defensive.

A loaded question is a question which contains a controversial assumption such as a presumption of guilt.[1]

Such questions are used rhetorically, so that the question limits direct replies to be those that serve the questioner's agenda.[2] The traditional example is the question "Have you stopped beating your wife?" Whether the respondent answers yes or no, he will admit to having a wife, and having beaten her at some time in the past. Thus, these facts are presupposed by the question, and in this case an entrapment, because it narrows the respondent to a single answer, and the fallacy of many questions has been committed.[​

I haven't fallen for this childish game of yours yet, what makes you think I will if you keep pushing?

As I have pointed out before, and you consistently refuse to acknowledge; You do not know what my position on the arab/muslim community is, you have never asked.

 

[Virus]

it is the palestinian people i defend. not their leaders.
since arafat, they have been in need of strong and moral leadership.

please answer my question.....why do you hate arabs so?

Good god. Cuban dictatorship and now Yasser Arafat as well? The guy was a stinking terrorist, gangster and racketeer. A giant ego and control freak as well. You say all governments suck but you have a soft spot for tyrannical communist and terrorist dictatorships.

 

[Virus]

err.......talking trees and rocks do not frighten me.

.

Arab culture uses more flowery and symbolic language than we do in the West. Would you feel safe under Hamas rule?