Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[CoulsdonUK]

I would love to have someone like Machiavelli still here to give us some insight on this but my conclusion from the early reports and later quotes is accurate on this from all I have been able to determine.

Machiavelli popped up on injustice in Perugia public forum the other day.

 

[komponisto]

[/B]
Surely the legality of conclusion was what the SC ruled on?

Not on that conclusion, no. It wasn't a subject of dispute!

 

[RoseMontague]

Machiavelli popped up on injustice in Perugia public forum the other day.

Thanks for pointing that out. It looks like Machiavelli is still trying to get Raffaele's foot to fit the bathmat print. I am surprised Machiavelli has not addressed the SC ruling that I saw. The point made about the headline is a pretty good one. Sometimes the writer of the article does not have much input on the headline. Still the article itself failed to make things clear.

ETA: I did ask Machiavelli for an opinion on this.

 

[RoseMontague]

The only feeling I got is that Amanda and raffaele are telling the truth.
When you have as the police do, tape recordings, vidio tapes, you would like to confirm your case, this in my mind would bring a plus to your case.
This case was made of buts and ifs.
And to tell the truth there is no real case agaisnt Amanda or Raffaele, this should have never went to court.
But it did that is the big question.
Why?

Not only should it not have gone to trial, Raffaele and Amanda should not have had to remain in jail a year before they were even charged.

 

[zeb]

RoseMontague
Not only should it not have gone to trial, Raffaele and Amanda should not have had to remain in jail a year before they were even charged.At my first thought, I can understand the reason why the judge placed Amanda and Raffaele in jail.
But two days later it comes back that AK and RC had nothing do with this crime.
Then jailed them for 365 days with all that? The procecution can come up with is a bra starp and a knife from RC.
Its sad to say, both of these items seems to do a walkies.
As you very well know these items, where found on the same day.
After 365 days you would expect the procecution to have evidence has high as the biggest building in the world.
But all they have is just a lot of ifs and buts.
AKand RC should have been let go when the evidence proved to the murder of Meredth pointed to Guede.
And I would tell you AK and RC was at his flat of the night of the murder.

 

[Justinian2]

Kenny Waters served 18 years in prison for murder he didn’t commit before DNA testing proved his innocence. His sister, Betty Anne Waters, put herself through college and law school in order to help with her brother’s case. She worked with the Innocence Project to bring about his exoneration in 2001.

Sadly, Waters passed away six months after his release. He was 47 years old and had spent more than a third of his life in prison for a crime he didn’t commit.

Waters’ case is the focus of the film “Conviction,” which was released in October 2010.

Rented the movie from RedBox over the weekend and watched. Good movie. The guy's sister spent her whole life trying to free him and finally did.

The guy was railroaded by bad cops and gullible witnesses.

The cops were motivated only by the need to convict and the desire for promotion. Anybody that asks why a cop would be motivated to pervert the evidence should have his head examined.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1244754/
http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/Kenny_Waters.php

The cops that framed Amanda are no different - just Italian.

 

[tronic]

Case closed -- Knox did it.

YOU CAN ALL PACK UP AND GO HOME NOW --- Knox admitted to her parents she was in Via della Pergola when Meredith Kercher was killed:

Transcript of tape recorded conversation of Amanda Knox with Curt Knox, Edda Mellas:

Amanda: Yes, there is a doctor. I took a medicine for a headache this morning, and now I feel better, but the reason I was crying yesterday is because there was this pressure on my head that wouldn’t go away because I felt horrible, this person looked at me as if I was a horrible person and I collapsed.

Edda: Like I said, the lawyers believe that they are doing it on purpose, because they sure have nothing, so they are trying to put pressure on like when they interrogated you to see if you would say something more and so you have to keep calm and do not say anything to anyone.

Amanda: Yeah, when I was in the room with him I said what? ... (Laughs) and then when I returned to my bedroom I was crying. I’m very, very worried for this thing about the knife... because there is a knife from Raffaele ...

Curt: Well, here, here, here are the facts… we talked yesterday with the lawyer and asked him about the knife. Every time that they have to review an item we have an expert there that will review it with them. This is an example of... this knife of which they are talking about, they have never notified anything about the knife.

E: So, it’s ********!

A: Is it ********?

E: It’s ********.

C: It’s complete ********. It’s a total fabrication.

E: That's what they're doing now. They are simply lying.

C: It's all a fabrication...

E: Yes, to make someone break down.

A: It’s stupid. I can’t say anything but the truth, because I know I was there. I mean, I can’t lie on this, there is no reason to do it.

C: Yeah, yeah, so what you have to do is not to talk about anything with anyone. Don’t write anything. You may receive letters. Have you received letters or anything else?

A: I'm getting loads of letters from admirers.

E: Well, people in Seattle, even your friends will start to write. They been asking me for some time, they want to send you things... probably many things can’t get through, e… but...

 

[Draca]

YOU CAN ALL PACK UP AND GO HOME NOW --- Knox admitted to her parents she was in Via della Pergola when Meredith Kercher was killed:

A: It’s stupid. I can’t say anything but the truth, because I know I was there. I mean, I can’t lie on this, there is no reason to do it.

It doesn't mention either the cottage or Raffaele's in the segment translated. Why exactly do you believe this if proof that she meant the cottage? For one thing, if she was at the cottage that would be a reason to lie and she is saying there is no reason. Do you have a longer translation that shows where they were talking about before she said that?

Why if it is so clear wasn't it used against her in her trial?

 

[komponisto]

Draca, tronic is either trying to make a joke or, more likely, hasn't followed the case and is unaware that that conversation (in which Amanda refers to being at Raffaele's house, not her own) is old news.

 

[Diastole]

YOU CAN ALL PACK UP AND GO HOME NOW --- Knox admitted to her parents she was in Via della Pergola when Meredith Kercher was killed:

A shocking confession indeed!! - perhaps comparable only to Mick Jagger's startling public admission that HE was the gunman on the Grassy Knoll!
"I shouted out 'Who killed the Kennedys,
but after all, it was..me"

 

[colonelhall]

"A: It’s stupid. I can’t say anything but the truth, because I know I was there. I mean, I can’t lie on this, there is no reason to do it. "

So if she was not at the cottage and she can only speak the truth and there is no reason to lie. Why did she lie?

And don't tell me that a couple of hours with the cops and an interpreter would make her tell such an enormous whopper!

 

[snook1]

As far as I know tronic was banned from PMF few days ago and he's a bit frustrated.

It's funny how the police did record the conversation but didn't record the interrogation. Funny as hell.

This is indeed old news. It wasn't used in the trial, simply beacuse everyone knew she meant Sollecito's flat, not the cottage.

 

[zeb]

It look's like team who do not want to look at the real facts as grown.
O well thats life

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Karl Fontenot's false confession

"A: It’s stupid. I can’t say anything but the truth, because I know I was there. I mean, I can’t lie on this, there is no reason to do it. "

So if she was not at the cottage and she can only speak the truth and there is no reason to lie. Why did she lie?

And don't tell me that a couple of hours with the cops and an interpreter would make her tell such an enormous whopper!

Colonelhall,

OK, I will not tell you. I will just tell you that it took two hours to produce a false confession from Karl Fontenot, as discussed in the book, "The Innocent Man," and elsewhere.

 

[Justinian2]

It’s stupid. I can’t say anything but the truth, because I know I was there. I mean, I can’t lie on this, there is no reason to do it.

I was there too. [I lived there.] I have no reason to lie about that. I can't lie about that.

Amanda lived there. Of course she was there.

I was there too - during one of my out of body travels.

The official word is that 'there' meant Raffaele's flat. And the when is unknown.

Talk about hearsay! This is exactly why hearsay evidence isn't allowed.

 

[Dan O.]

Why are we talking about old news that's been through the translation grinder twice?
(First and second translations originally published at Perugia Shock on 2008/10/17)

ETA: it was just reposted at the swill factory a few days ago. Perhaps tronic has been drinking the cool-aide.

Did the original tape of this conversation ever surface? Or did they store it on a hard drive and send it over to the postal police for safe keeping?

 

[Katody Matrass]

Why are we talking about old news that's been through the translation grinder twice?
(First and second translations originally published at Perugia Shock on 2008/10/17)

ETA: it was just reposted at the swill factory a few days ago. Perhaps tronic has been drinking the cool-aide.

Did the original tape of this conversation ever surface? Or did they store it on a hard drive and send it over to the postal police for safe keeping?

Thanks for pointing this out, Dan O. The fact we're dealing with a translation of translation of a transcript is certainly overlooked by some.

 

[Justinian2]

Re: "I was there"

Yahoo dictionary: Hearsay: Law Evidence based on the reports of others rather than the personal knowledge of a witness and therefore generally not admissible as testimony.

It is a frequent rule of court that for written/recorded evidence to be admissible, the person that makes the statement must be available for cross examination.

Amanda on the witness stand said that her statement referred to Raffaele's flat, so that's what it is. She is actually talking about her alibi.

The location and time of her statement are unknown. The only thing we know for sure is that the location and time were at place that Amanda had no reason to deny.

 

[s_pepys]

I was there too. [I lived there.] I have no reason to lie about that. I can't lie about that.

Amanda lived there. Of course she was there.

I was there too - during one of my out of body travels.

The official word is that 'there' meant Raffaele's flat. And the when is unknown.

Talk about hearsay! This is exactly why hearsay evidence isn't allowed.

can you point to a cite that this is the "official" interpretation and not just yours. also, why would she be discussing lying about being at rs flat with her folks. it doesnt make any sense in that context imo. but who knows.

there seems to have been an awful lot of different statements made by ak that implicate her that get brushed aside or judged as misinterpretated etc... coincidence? this is one unlucky girl and her parents advice to keep her mouth shut is very good advice. that much is certain.

lxxx

 

[Justinian2]

can you point to a cite that this is the "official" interpretation and not just yours. also, why would she be discussing lying about being at rs flat with her folks. it doesnt make any sense in that context imo. but who knows.

there seems to have been an awful lot of different statements made by ak that implicate her that get brushed aside or judged as misinterpretated etc... coincidence? this is one unlucky girl and her parents advice to keep her mouth shut is very good advice. that much is certain.

lxxx

Knox’s lawyers did ask her about the famous sentence, when she took the stand in June 2009. Luciano Ghirga, her Perugia lawyer, asked if she really told her parents:

“It would be stupid to lie about this because I know I was there.”
Amanda replied, “Of course.”

Ghirga: “What’d you mean by ‘I was there’”?

Amanda: “I was in Raffaele’s apartment and wasn’t afraid to say it.”

Amanda has been living in a goldfish bowl. The only thing that has not been revealed are video tapes of her sitting on the toilet.

For three years, everything that Amanda has said or written has been revealed for all to see and speculate on. That the statement "I was there" is all they've got, is testimony to the absence of evidence.

Furthermore, Guede has on at least three occasions said that Amanda was NOT there.

If Amanda's "I was there" is to be considered, then the three statements that "Amanda was NOT there" should also be considered.