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Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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I always thought it telling that one of the interpreters used in Amanda's interrogation testified that she felt her role was one of a mediator. I ran into this survey earlier which describes the state of interpreters in the Italian legal process:

no national Register of legal interpreters
no national Code of Ethics for legal interpreters
no nationally recognized qualification for legal
interpreters
very low pay for freelance interpreters (only a
small number of staff interpreters working for
the Home Ministry and the Ministry of Justice)
confusion around the roles of interpreters vs.
cultural mediators

http://www.eulita.eu/sites/default/files/Interpreters in the legal process in Italy.pdf
 
"What evidence do you have that Amanda's lawyers, family, or someone associated with the defense leaked the diary?"

I was just going by what I read in the article. Do you have proof that they didn't. I noticed in an article by Candace Dempsey, where she challenged the translation of the diary and gave her own translation. Where did she get her copy?

What Knox's hand written words do for me is to challenge some for the statements that are put about and treated as if they were the gospel truth.This diary entry clearly indicates that she was keen to tell people about her sexual history.
 
Kaosium, I don't understand a word of your reply. You clearly haven't answered my question. Why did the family or lawyers leak the contents of the diary?

I presume that you are saying that they didn't. Do you have proof of this or is it your opinion?

Was the diary confiscated by the police? Who had access to it? Do you have answers? If so, I would be interested to hear them.

For so long, I was under the impression that the authorities made Knox write this list, yet here it is completely unsolicited. To whom was she writing? The tone of this diary entry suggests that she wanted others to read it. It seems reasonable to conclude that the contents would have been passed on.


Why do you find it necessary to invent or repeat lies about Amanda? Have you ever done any personal research in this case to try and find the truth?

The answers to the questions you and others like you keep posing have been posted in these threads many times.


Why did the family or lawyers leak the contents of the diary?


The diaries had been leaked almost immediately after the police confiscated them. Amanda's diary was confiscated from her prison cell on Nov. 29, 2007 and the very next day it was being quoted in the italian press. It wasn't until much later that the lawyers released the diaries to control the spin"

2008-01-17 NewsWeek/Barbie Nadeau/Prison Diaries
their respective lawyers have now released the couple's own account of the events of the night of Nov. 1. These have come in the form of diaries compiled during their time in prison. Knox records her thoughts in English in a "Spider-Man 2" notebook titled in Italian "La Mia Prigione" (My Prison); Sollecito compiles his in a tightly written Italian text called "Notes on a Prison Journey."​
 
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Kaosium, I don't understand a word of your reply. You clearly haven't answered my question. Why did the family or lawyers leak the contents of the diary?

They wouldn't have to 'leak' anything, by right they could give anything they wanted to the press. Obviously this would not be anything Amanda would want in the tabloids, being as by November 16th the 'Foxy Knoxy' smear campaign had begun.

I presume that you are saying that they didn't. Do you have proof of this or is it your opinion?

Was the diary confiscated by the police? Who had access to it? Do you have answers? If so, I would be interested to hear them.

Circa about page 300 of the first continuation, Machiavelli and Mary H amongst others went at this. As I recall off the top of my head Machiavelli's argument was 'tough titties' more or less. Basically he said that Amanda was a prisoner and they could do what they willed with her in this regard, vae victus.

For so long, I was under the impression that the authorities made Knox write this list, yet here it is completely unsolicited. To whom was she writing? The tone of this diary entry suggests that she wanted others to read it. It seems reasonable to conclude that the contents would have been passed on.

Are you serious? You honestly believe she wanted the tabloids and paparazzi who were (or would be) taking her fears via 'leaked' conversations with her mother of being sexually assaulted and spinning it as her being 'narcissistic,' at the same time they were printing outright lies and advancing the notion she was a soulless sociopath who would literally kill for pizza, to get a hold of the diary entries of the 'worst moments of her life?' So they could degrade and humiliate her further?

At any rate, it was her diary, she was writing it to herself. She always tried to keep a notebook handy so she could write things down, it was her 'way.' I never got the point of diaries myself, but have you ever known a girl who kept one? Ever tried to get a peek? Let me know how that went, I was never man enough to ask. Thus I don't know what 'tone' is used in a girl's diary, but it seems to me she's pouring out her fears and tears in that diary entry thus I doubt she wanted anyone reading it. I'm virtually certain she didn't want the tabloids and papparazzi getting their hands on it, basically the only thing that went right for her legally in Italy was the suing of the sleaze merchants who published it.

As for the infamous 'list' that's what she wrote when she was told she tested positive for HIV, some maintain that it was deliberately done so they could see if she'd write Patrick down as a sexual contact so they'd actually have some 'evidence' against him, however twistedly concocted. You see, they were severely lacking in any evidence against the three of them, at this point all that had were misattributed footprints and the like, all the individual specific stuff kept coming up someone else. It was no doubt extremely perplexing for the intrepid 'investigators' of the police in Perugia.

Oh, could you post the actual link to the information you read at TJMK? Coulsdon's link doesn't contain anything more than the top half of that diary page, and you forgot shrunken urls can't be directly copied and pasted. :)
 
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Dan O. "Why do you find it necessary to invent or repeat lies about Amanda? Have you ever done any personal research in this case to try and find the truth?"

As far as I know, I have never "invented" a lie about this case. If I am repeating "lies" by others, I apologise, but I am not aware of any 'lies" in this respect.

As far as having done any research in this case. I guess I am like most people who are interested and come to boards such as this for enlightenment. I have read a coupe of books, seen some television shows, read newspaper articles and many many blogs.

Like most people, I make up my own mind regarding those contributors whose views and attitudes I respect.

Here is the article, to which I was referring:

Lifetime Movie Included A Serious Wrong Charge Against Prosecutors And Prison Medical Staff

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php
 
ColonelHall
Why would the parents want to release Amanda Knox diary, telling about her sexual partners.
If I am right the first time her parents Amanda was at her per trail hearring.
That was five days after she was arested.
I think you are very worng on that one
 
colonelhall, If you choose to take your news from a single site that spews hate and vile against anybody that dares stand on the side of Amanda and Raffaele and choose not to verify this news before regurgitating it yourself then there is nothing that I or anyone else can do to change your mind.

For anyone else that is just starting to get into this case, the HIV issue was discussed in depth long ago. From what we know about this incident, Amanda was told that she may be HIV positive. She believed that this was serious enough that she wrote in her diary the names of each person she had ever been intimate with. On November 29th, 2007 the authorities raided her prison cell and confiscated all of her writings. On November 30th, 2007 her private writings were being published in the Italian press and elsewhere the next day.

Was this all some planned conspiracy to degrade Amanda in the public press or just some big Oops that just happened that way?


It has been a standard guilter lie that it was the family's lawyers that leaked the diary to reporters. The fact is that the press were already publishing the contents of the diary before Amanda's lawyers were able to acquire it. Here is what Barbie said when she got a copy of the diary in January 2008:
...After that, she goes on to list all the young men she has had sex with since coming to Italy, including one man she met on the train to Perugia. In that entry—part of which was redacted before her lawyers released it—she notes when her partners used condoms and writes about her fear of contracting AIDS.​

Why do the guilter sites of TJMK and PMF find it necessary to create and spread these lies?
 
For anyone else that is just starting to get into this case, the HIV issue was discussed in depth long ago. From what we know about this incident, Amanda was told that she may be HIV positive. She believed that this was serious enough that she wrote in her diary the names of each person she had ever been intimate with. On November 29th, 2007 the authorities raided her prison cell and confiscated all of her writings. On November 30th, 2007 her private writings were being published in the Italian press and elsewhere the next day.

It's worth adding that the seven lifetime sexual contacts listed by Amanda in her diary were misrepresented in the media campaign against her, alleging that she had seven different partners in the two months (!) she had been in Italy. The false story that they included a stranger she met on a train also became current.
 
Dan O. "Why do you find it necessary to invent or repeat lies about Amanda? Have you ever done any personal research in this case to try and find the truth?"

As far as I know, I have never "invented" a lie about this case. If I am repeating "lies" by others, I apologise, but I am not aware of any 'lies" in this respect.

As far as having done any research in this case. I guess I am like most people who are interested and come to boards such as this for enlightenment. I have read a coupe of books, seen some television shows, read newspaper articles and many many blogs.

Like most people, I make up my own mind regarding those contributors whose views and attitudes I respect.

Here is the article, to which I was referring:

Lifetime Movie Included A Serious Wrong Charge Against Prosecutors And Prison Medical Staff

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php

Hollywood produces storytellers, not historians, and the necessities of that medium require it to play fast and loose with events sometimes to avoid boring everyone to death. Having said that, there's nothing untoward about what I remember of the HIV scene, she loses her temper with her doctor and suggests there was never an actual positive test, which is what probability would strongly suggest. Plus as Barbie Nadeau pointed out, like cops everywhere ILE likes to play mindgames, just more so than most and with nastier rules.

It would not surprise me at all if they faked that 'positive' HIV test. As LondonJohn and Halides1 have suggested there is no rational reason to tell her about the false positive until it was confirmed, and the classic Bayesian (the Monty Hall equation that kicked Dear Abby's ass for years in her column) example is a false positive in a medical test which one finds actually turns out more likely to be negative due to the (relatively) extremely low inherent probability of being infected. Even if she did test positive the fact they ever told her suggests dirty pool.

Now, whether that was done to try to elicit a list that included Lumumba--or any list of lovers--is speculative, but they do place high emphasis on behavioral cues and she did testify she liked to write everything down, thus it wouldn't be much of a stretch to conclude it's possible they might have done that and assumed she'd write about her partners. Personally I think if it was done, it was to get a real confession. That's what they really wanted, and if they got that they'd get the rest. They just got the consolation prize instead.

Frankly Colonel, that he even advances the notion that friends and family of Amanda would've leaked that part of the diary should immediately discredit that entire site. I cannot see how anyone could read that and not mentally recoil from the implausibility of the notion. All you have to do is enter 'Foxy Knoxy' into google and just read for a few hours how she was depicted virtually immediately by the tabloids, with helpful 'leaks' from police. It would be like them willingly sandpapering her leg to the meat and sticking the bloody mess into a shark tank.

If they tried to set the record straight after the damage was done that would have been for contextual reasons or to correct a poor translation. It's not like anyone would ever have wished for that to have become a necessity, kinda like pulling that bloody stump out of the shark tank and cauterizing it. One 'hilarious' early event included a copy of her 'gift' note that she wrote immediately after the interrogation having been translated into Italian and then back into English producing entirely different nuances and distorting meaning in absurd ways.

It's not like he doesn't know this either.

Oh, and while you're over there, you can tell them I await my calunnia charge with glee. At one point I recall they were keeping track of 'enemies of Italy' that should have charges filed on them like was done to the families of Raffaele and Amanda. Apparently they recently threatened CD Host with the same when discussing something on the IMDB site, I believe it was, thus they must still be 'making a list, checking it twice.'

If what I haven't already said about ILE, Mignini and Di Felice isn't enough, I'll happily produce a new accusation, though I'd rather not do it on this site as I'd like to employ a little of the vernacular Anglo-Saxon so I can fully express my feelings regarding their treatment of Amanda, Raffaele, both their families and lawyers, and all the journalists they've also tried to grind under their jackboots. They can use that rapier-like 'investigative' ability that still thinks Bruce Fisher is a cameraman in Seattle to find out just who 'Kaosium' is. :cool:
 
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This slander thing would be funny, but its very sad.
If the Tape was played in court, this would end the slander bit of the case.
Also it would show Amanda as guilty as charge or her innocent.
What puzzel me is that the police say there is no recordings.
What police force around the world would not record an interview about a murder, this recording would be made just to cover their backs, and prove they did evey thing by the law
 
anonymous

Here is the article, to which I was referring:

Lifetime Movie Included A Serious Wrong Charge Against Prosecutors And Prison Medical Staff

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php

colonelhall,

The article to which you linked said "prosecutors" did not leak the diary. That may well be true. More likely it was the police who leaked it. The fact that the person who wrote it is anonymous should tell you something.
 
Does anyone know whether the SC confirmed or accepted the theory that Guede broke into the cottage? I am curious to know how their conclusion of how Guede gained access to the cottage.
 
colonelhall,

The article to which you linked said "prosecutors" did not leak the diary. That may well be true. More likely it was the police who leaked it. The fact that the person who wrote it is anonymous should tell you something.

As a someone elsewhere pointed out recently, Barbie Nadeau said the positive HIV test was the result of police "psychological trickery" and that one of the "detectives close to the case" leaked the diary to Nick Pisa who broke the story (page 27-28 Angel Face).
 
Does anyone know whether the SC confirmed or accepted the theory that Guede broke into the cottage? I am curious to know how their conclusion of how Guede gained access to the cottage.

I don't think Guede had been charged with burglary. If there was no such charge SC had nothing to decide or not.
 
I don't think Guede had been charged with burglary. If there was no such charge SC had nothing to decide or not.

It appears that PMF has decided to undertake the task of translating the SC Guede Motivation report so I am sure we will have the full report shortly, maybe even any day now.
 
This slander thing would be funny, but its very sad.
If the Tape was played in court, this would end the slander bit of the case.
Also it would show Amanda as guilty as charge or her innocent.
What puzzle me is that the police say there is no recordings.
What police force around the world would not record an interview about a murder, this recording would be made just to cover their backs, and prove they did every thing by the law

I wonder why they didn't provide the tape, then.
 
It appears that PMF has decided to undertake the task of translating the SC Guede Motivation report so I am sure we will have the full report shortly, maybe even any day now.
I had assumed give that there has been so much discussion here and elsewhere that there was a formal charge of breaking in. I guess I’ll have to wait for the translation.
 
I had assumed give that there has been so much discussion here and elsewhere that there was a formal charge of breaking in. I guess I’ll have to wait for the translation.

Here is what we have on his previous burglaries:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5981643&postcount=18

Italy...(gathered from various news reports and translated via gobble)

Police remain baffled by a series of 6 crimes in and around Perugia in the month preceding the infamous murder of Meredith Kercher. A source within the police department that wishes to remain anonymous indicated to this reporter that although there is bafflement they are completely satisfied with the non results of the non investigation.

Witnesses describe a man of African descent resembling the convicted killer, Rudy Guede, as the person responsible for this unsolved crime spree. Other witnesses have described him as that guy Rudy or that Guede character. Interestingly, in a non related incident, police sources report that Rudy Guede was subjected to severe questioning for over 14 hours and constantly asked if he needed a pillow for his upcoming train trip about the time these crimes were taking place but nobody has been taken in for questioning about these crimes.

The victims of these crimes, some of whom have lost some of their most prized possessions appear to be well satisfied with the non investigation. One was quoted as saying, "according to me, Rudy can explain".
 
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