PFC Manning to face charge of aiding the enemy

Taarkin said:
Sword_Of_Truth said:
If he was caught using the PX as a front to smuggle and distribute coccaine, he would probably be more accessible.
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If Manning had access to classified information but was arrested for drug smuggling or prostitution or jaywalking or whatever, why would he be more accessible?
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Are servicemen who work in the PX exposed to a lot of classified material?
 
Aoidoi said:
As far as I'm aware receiving classified documents is not a crime.
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It is if they were in contact with him and assisting him and encouraging him to steal the classified information. For example, if Manning said to Assange "hey, I'm in the Army and can get classified information, is that something you'd be interested in?". And Assange says "oh hell yeah! Well gladly take whatever you can get", at that point Assange has become part of the conspiracy.

That's why the timing of the theft and the contact with Assange is so important.
 
egslim said:
ETA: Come to think of it, Manning probably deserves a reward for publicly exposing and therefore ending the means by which several other countries have undoubtedly been leaching US intelligence information for the past several years.
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I'll send him a plaque to hang in his prison cell where he can look at it for the rest of his life.
 
Aoidoi said:
I haven't seen any comments from him on his motivations, though I certainly could have missed any.

As Darth Rotor so... eloquently... puts it, his motivation isn't particularly important. The important thing is that a PFC was able to take a huge chunk of information and hand it over without anybody noticing. That he gave it to wikileaks is the only reason he was even caught, as the military suddenly knew it had a leak and what was leaked (at least, my understanding is that he wasn't caught until they did an investigation based on that known leak). Had he simply sold it to a foreign government I doubt we'd even know about it.

Which is not a happy thought.

Information security inside the government and military seems lacking, to put it mildly.
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Per: what I have read/heard on that, the problem is you can have it secure and pretty slow or quick but some insecure and they and State opted for quick. I have nothing against Pentagon papers - no troops were harmed (and many probably helped indirectly) by their release. This helped no one except rectum eaters who like to laugh at others problems but can't tell their anus from their mouth (talkin to you Manning and your bboy J.)
 
fuelair said:
I have nothing against Pentagon papers - no troops were harmed (and many probably helped indirectly) by their release. This helped no one except rectum eaters who like to laugh at others problems but can't tell their anus from their mouth (talkin to you Manning and your bboy J.)
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Interestingly, Daniel Ellsberg, the man who released the Pentagon Papers in 1971, has been a frequent defender of WikiLeaks. Following the November 2010 release of U.S. diplomatic cables, Ellsberg rejected criticism that the site was endangering the lives of U.S. military personnel and intelligence assets stating "not one single soldier or informant has been in danger from any of the WikiLeaks releases. That risk has been largely overblown."[1] Ellsberg went on to note that government claims to the contrary were "a script that they roll out every time there's a leak of any sort."[2] Following the US diplomatic cable release, which a number of media reports sought to differentiate from Ellsberg's whistleblowing,[5] Ellsberg claimed, "EVERY attack now made on WikiLeaks and Julian Assange was made against me and the release of the Pentagon Papers at the time."
Bolding mine.

I think the key difference between the way people feel about the Pentagon Papers and Cablegate is time. Forty years is enough to bury the leading characters, and for the public to cool off and tone down.

I predict forty years from now most people will feel the same way about Cablegate as you do about the Pentagon Papers today.
 
Re: the death penalty charges, the real, big world does work just like the swap meet.

Ask for more than you expect, hope for the most, compromise later when you hunker down and draw sketches in the sand with a crooked stick.

If I needed a criminal lawyer, screw Perry Mason. I'd want a poker player.
 
egslim said:
I predict forty years from now most people will feel the same way about Cablegate as you do about the Pentagon Papers today.
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I predict you will be wrong, because Manning's leaks did not reveal any wrongdoing or coverups, it was just a dump of classified information that has caused actual damage to diplomacy.
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
Are servicemen who work in the PX exposed to a lot of classified material?
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I misread your post, so let me rephrase my question: if Manning was accused of using PX as a front to smuggle and distribute coccaine or prostitutes, why would he probably be more accessible?
 
Taarkin said:
I misread your post, so let me rephrase my question: if Manning was accused of using PX as a front to smuggle and distribute coccaine or prostitutes, why would he probably be more accessible?
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If Pvt. Manning did not have access to classified material during the course of his assigned duties, then there would be one less reason to hold him in solitary confinement.
 
WildCat said:
I predict you will be wrong, because Manning's leaks did not reveal any wrongdoing or coverups, it was just a dump of classified information that has caused actual damage to diplomacy.
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Bolding mine. That's the kind of nonsense 40 years from now nobody will believe anymore. People will either have died off or come to their senses.

In the words of Secretary Gates: But let me – let me just offer some perspective as somebody who’s been at this a long time. Every other government in the world knows the United States government leaks like a sieve, and it has for a long time.
[...]
So other nations will continue to deal with us. They will continue to work with us. We will continue to share sensitive information with one another. Is this embarrassing? Yes. Is it awkward? Yes. Consequences for U.S. foreign policy? I think fairly modest.
 
egslim said:
I could be wrong,
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Yep
... Manning probably deserves a reward for publicly exposing and therefore ending the means by which several other countries have undoubtedly been leaching US intelligence information for the past several years.
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Nope.

He didn't just "break the rules" on handling classified information.

He sort of took a fire axe to them and tried to turn them into splinters.

No reward for Manning, other than what a Court Martial shall award him.
 
egslim said:
Bolding mine. That's the kind of nonsense 40 years from now nobody will believe anymore. People will either have died off or come to their senses.

In the words of Secretary Gates: But let me – let me just offer some perspective as somebody who’s been at this a long time. Every other government in the world knows the United States government leaks like a sieve, and it has for a long time.
[...]
So other nations will continue to deal with us. They will continue to work with us. We will continue to share sensitive information with one another. Is this embarrassing? Yes. Is it awkward? Yes. Consequences for U.S. foreign policy? I think fairly modest.
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Your own cherry-picked quote from Gates shows there was damage, even if it was "fairly modest". And 40 years from now he'll still be in prison, where he belongs. No one elected Manning to set US diplomatic plicy.
 
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Darth Rotor said:
Yep
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Nicely out of context.

He didn't just "break the rules" on handling classified information.

He sort of took a fire axe to them and tried to turn them into splinters.

No reward for Manning, other than what a Court Martial shall award him.
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I'm pretty sure every government on this planet with an interest had already gotten someone to do exactly what Manning did. For a fee, of course.
 
WildCat said:
Your own cherry-picked quote from Gates shows there was damage, even if it was "fairly modest".
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Nothing cherry-picked about it. I linked the entire statement, feel free to check it.

Gates doesn't even bother to use the term "damage", that's your misintepretation. He says "consequences".

No one elected Manning to set US diplomatic plicy.
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He didn't. He just informed the electorate.
 
egslim said:
Interestingly, Daniel Ellsberg, the man who released the Pentagon Papers in 1971, has been a frequent defender of WikiLeaks. Following the November 2010 release of U.S. diplomatic cables, Ellsberg rejected criticism that the site was endangering the lives of U.S. military personnel and intelligence assets stating "not one single soldier or informant has been in danger from any of the WikiLeaks releases. That risk has been largely overblown."[1] Ellsberg went on to note that government claims to the contrary were "a script that they roll out every time there's a leak of any sort."[2] Following the US diplomatic cable release, which a number of media reports sought to differentiate from Ellsberg's whistleblowing,[5] Ellsberg claimed, "EVERY attack now made on WikiLeaks and Julian Assange was made against me and the release of the Pentagon Papers at the time."
Bolding mine.
I think the key difference between the way people feel about the Pentagon Papers and Cablegate is time. Forty years is enough to bury the leading characters, and for the public to cool off and tone down.

I predict forty years from now most people will feel the same way about Cablegate as you do about the Pentagon Papers today.
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Possibly - except bundles of us supported the PP release and praised Ellsburg at the time (and Berrigan, et.al.) There was, for us, a very big difference between then-collecting papers directly and specifically showing pentagon/political lying about a war that should never have occured in any way shape or form and now - randomly pulling and releasing papers for fun that prove nothing not already known to any intelligent citizen (diplomats are trained to lie diplomatically and do covert work? Oh noes!!!) but cause problems for the countries involved and potentially harm to troops and allies/sources on the ground (please demo harm to troops from the PP release). I am very sorry Ellsberg thinks the current thing with Assange is great - maybe he is getting senile and can't tell the difference. This tarnishes but can't destroy the good that he helped do - but he is wrong. They weren't/aren't the same at all.:(
 
egslim said:
Gates doesn't even bother to use the term "damage", that's your misintepretation. He says "consequences".
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Speaking of consequences of Wikileaks--are we to assume the "enemy" that Manning aided are the people of Tunisia? The opposition to Qaddaffi in Libya? The Egyptians who ousted Mubarek?
 
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