Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[katy_did]

On this piece of evidence, there may be a significance then, for Raffaele's appeal. CoulsdonUK used this as an example and it is a valid one from what I can see.

Could be - I'm just wondering what it actually means for the documents to be included in the trial file. Is it just for the jury to consider (i.e. they're just added to the existing documents in the file) or can they be used by the defence and prosecution? I'd guess that if the defence were going to use something from Guede's trial they'd need to make an additional request to the judge, kind of like the extra 100+ pages they filed on top of the main appeal documents. Perhaps not straightforward for either defence or prosecution to use the information in Court?

 

[Chris C]

This thread has been reduced mainly to a die-hard group of Knox supporters, many of whom have spent a great deal of time and energy researching the case and creating some ingenious theories that support her innocence. To some extent one wonders to what end, as, I suspect many people have given up following their arguments. However, if nothing else one must have begrudging admiration for their tenacity.

Having put in so much time, it amazes me that they weaken their case by resorting to lame attacks on the few journalists who have taken the time to research the case thoroughly and to make a true effort to report the case fairly.

Mary H, you let yourself down badly with comments such as "Vogt must be desperate for controversy (and comments)" especially as you appear to side with C. Dempsy whose poorly written and factually inaccurate blog allows no such comments.

Vogt's articles seem to coincide with actual developments in the case, as opposed to the many news items such as Knox's loss of hair, loss of sight, ambition to become a nun etc.

My advise to Knox supporters is to stick to your theories and to stop being so damn rude to people!

Well according to JREF admins this kinda talk on this thread is way off topic. Recently alot of members were suspended and banned for talking about related issues to the Knox case and not talking about the Knox case. Everything in this post is offtopic and/or attacking posters on this forum. Calling Knox supporters, "damn rude" is an attack on members of this forum. Maybe you should edit your post?

 

[Kaosium]

Did you notice a real contradiction in how Rudy described Meredith's clothes and how she was actually dressed that night? Strange he wouldn't remember this correctly.

"....the girl was dressed in a dark jacket, a white pullover and blue jeans" from the Micheli report, what Rudy said.

That hardly surprises me, I wouldn't be able to tell you what someone was wearing unless I was asked beforehand to notice. I just take no note of it, there's no importance in it as far as I can see. The only way I'd remember much of anything at all about it would be if it was really striking or unusual, or not very much on an eligible female, and in the latter case I probably wouldn't be able to describe the clothing as odds are I would have been looking where the clothes weren't...

 

[Katody Matrass]

That hardly surprises me, I wouldn't be able to tell you what someone was wearing unless I was asked beforehand to notice. I just take no note of it, there's no importance in it as far as I can see. The only way I'd remember much of anything at all about it would be if it was really striking or unusual, or not very much on an eligible female, and in the latter case I probably wouldn't be able to describe the clothing as odds are I would have been looking where the clothes weren't...

But isn't what Rudy said basically correct, if not very detailed?

"....the girl was dressed in a dark jacket, a white pullover and blue jeans"​

 

[Danceme]

Well according to JREF admins this kinda talk on this thread is way off topic. Recently alot of members were suspended and banned for talking about related issues to the Knox case and not talking about the Knox case. Everything in this post is offtopic and/or attacking posters on this forum. Calling Knox supporters, "damn rude" is an attack on members of this forum. Maybe you should edit your post?

So is calling someone "rude" worse than actually being "rude", as certain posters most definitely were? Their posts were most certainly attacks on other members of this forum. Does that also incite your sense of indignation?

That hardly surprises me, I wouldn't be able to tell you what someone was wearing unless I was asked beforehand to notice. I just take no note of it, there's no importance in it as far as I can see. The only way I'd remember much of anything at all about it would be if it was really striking or unusual, or not very much on an eligible female, and in the latter case I probably wouldn't be able to describe the clothing as odds are I would have been looking where the clothes weren't...

Yes, it's probably perfectly reasonable in your case, my boyfriend is very similar however Rudy supposedly carressed the girl in these clothes, then killed her in these clothes, undressed her and threw these clothes aside and covered her in a duvet, which he also remembered as being red! not beige. He has quite the terrible memory. Somehow I would have imagined details like these would stick in his mind when reliving the horror of what he participated in.

 

[Danceme]

But isn't what Rudy said basically correct, if not very detailed?

"....the girl was dressed in a dark jacket, a white pullover and blue jeans"​

Not quite, she had a powder blue Adidas jacket over two t-shirts and yes, jeans. At another point in the report he describes the white pullover more as a white wool sweater.

 

[Katody Matrass]

katy_did, great you're here to shed some light on that Italian document!

Do you think the SC really accentuated the group aspect of the crime in it's verdict?

I tried to make heads or tails out of it by google translate with little success:
Looks like the main point of Guede's appeal was to shift the blame fully on AK and RS. Where they are mentioned in the actual verdict is where SC states disbelief and points inconsistencies in Rudy's story.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

show me the evidence

Mary H, you let yourself down badly with comments such as "Vogt must be desperate for controversy (and comments)" especially as you appear to side with C. Dempsy whose poorly written and factually inaccurate blog allows no such comments. !

colonelhall,

Can you back up your claim that Ms. Dempsey's blog is factually inaccurate? If not, I suggest you withdraw the claim.

 

[Kaosium]

colonelhall,

Can you back up your claim that Ms. Dempsey's blog is factually inaccurate? If not, I suggest you withdraw the claim.

Do you suppose this will end up like the last time someone tried to 'prove' something about Candace Dempsey being inaccurate? I remember it was around page 400 of the last thread. They got drowned in links until it was revealed just how well sourced the account of that motorcade from the Questura to the central jail actually is.

That was kinda fun!

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

colonelhall,

Can you back up your claim that Ms. Dempsey's blog is factually inaccurate? If not, I suggest you withdraw the claim.

How about this quote in her most recent ....


" during Knox’s appeal, in a new report on drifter and burglar Rudy Guede, the alleged co-conspirator she met just once. "

And the funny thing about this, in this same article, she's giving lessons on good journalism.

" This is Journalism 101"

 

[Kaosium]

Yes, it's probably perfectly reasonable in your case, my boyfriend is very similar however Rudy supposedly carressed the girl in these clothes, then killed her in these clothes, undressed her and threw these clothes aside and covered her in a duvet, which he also remembered as being red! not beige. He has quite the terrible memory. Somehow I would have imagined details like these would stick in his mind when reliving the horror of what he participated in.

I wonder if he does relive that horror, or if he blocks it out?

I wonder the same thing about Amanda when people question why she can't recall certain things, to both of them this was the worst night of their lives. We sit and pore over the details of this crime perhaps forgetting to the people who lived them they were transitory items, about events best soon forgotten. I can't help but imagine dwelling on such things is one route to madness.

Regarding Guede, perhaps his memory doesn't come in technicolor? You got me to thinking about this, and I've tried to recall a particularly stressful event where I might remember what someone was wearing. My problem is most of the high-anxiety moments of my life everyone (more or less) was wearing the same damn thing, thus that wasn't particularly helpful. Others were so long ago they would hardly be a fair comparison and I'd have no way of checking.

With Rudy I'd imagine he'd have to avoid even thinking about it to preserve whatever self-image he wants to maintain. Were he a monster, a creature devoid of conscience, perhaps he'd relive it dispassionately, or even fond remembrance, but I don't get that impression reading about him. Those people are pretty rare regardless, the ones that can murder and rape and feel no remorse.

Perhaps it would be justice if all he remembers the rest of his life are those moments in Meredith's room on November 1st, but I don't think it actually plays out that way in the real world. I think instead he probably spends his time forgetting, rationalizing, whatever it takes to feel even some semblance of decency about himself. What Meredith was wearing and what happened on that night is probably something he's locked inside a closet and hopes to never open again.

Just a guess of course, merely exploring why he could totally forget about something like that....because that's all he does now--try to forget.

 

[RWVBWL]

Here is the relevant quote from the Borsini Motivation (Google translation):

Without, however, to see anyone from the window which looked out, repeated attempts to render assistance to. girl, stating that he saw her with. worn jeans and a white shirt and covered her breasts and not half-naked, reiterated that he felt the word 'f', delivered by the girl and mancala justified the call for help with the fact that longer had the phone with her confusion and fear. not to be believed, "having left traces everywhere, added that wearing shoes" Adidas ", he said remained clean, returning home when he has to the 22.30 and had washed his clothes and then he went, about 23.30, Alex's house, where he also met Philip, with whom he then had. went to the center, then to "Domus" and after.

Hi RoseMontague, Danceme, ChrisC and others,
We discussed Rudy's sneakers back in January in comparrison to the person seen walking in the CCTV video. With this in mind, I have a question regarding the post above by RoseMontague.

Rudy mentions wearing Adidas, but I thought he finally admited, months later, to wearing Nike Outbreak II sneakers. I'm not a shoe guy, being a beach dude and all, but those are nice lookin sneakers and I bet that it must have been hard for him to discard those Nike's while on the run in Germany:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6806915#post6806915


Was the Borsini Motivation written before the Nike Outbreak II shoebox was found in Rudy's flat? Or was Rudy Guede lying again?
Thanks for an answer,
RW

PS-It's Interesting to read LMT's theories on the shoes and shoeprints on the current Perugia Shock forum...

 

[Kaosium]

How about this quote in her most recent ....


" during Knox’s appeal, in a new report on drifter and burglar Rudy Guede, the alleged co-conspirator she met just once. "

And the funny thing about this, in this same article, she's giving lessons on good journalism.

" This is Journalism 101"

What's inaccurate about that? That's true, she only met Rudy once. Seeing him at a bar she's working at hardly constitutes another 'meeting,' and nothing more than her noticing his presence was ever revealed.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

the clasp was the focus of interest

I have not been arguing about evidence! I raised points about the Sollecito family’s involvement in supplying the video to a television station of Meredith’s body being examined. May I suggest that you re-read my posts.

CoulsdonUK,

Is that really an accurate summary of the whole video? It is just a few seconds, is it not. I suspect that what interested the Sollecito family was the bra clasp, which (flawed as it is) is still the single strongest piece of evidence against either Sollecito or Knox. MOO.

 

[RWVBWL]

Hi all,
Speaking of LMT,
does anyone know of this test that LMT writes of?

"Years ago, forensic scientists developed a test of the fluid in the "eyeball" as a potential measure of the time of death. Most scientists agreed that this might be useful and it was adopted. Find out if there is forensic data that the defence was not given."

also this:

"Did anyone else know that most forensic departments include a test of the fluid in the inner eye as a measure of time of death?

No, most people would not know that.

Did the Italians have this test? What did it show?"


I am not a true-crime buff nor a CSI watcher, so I have never heard of ways to measure a persons ToD. Is what LMT writes of another way to do so?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

maybe, maybe not

How about this quote in her most recent ....


" during Knox’s appeal, in a new report on drifter and burglar Rudy Guede, the alleged co-conspirator she met just once. "

And the funny thing about this, in this same article, she's giving lessons on good journalism.

" This is Journalism 101"

Sherlock Holmes,

IIRC, Amanda testified that Rudy may have come into the bar a few times. She did not say anything to the effect that they interacted.

 

[Dan O.]

Hi all,
Speaking of LMT,
does anyone know of this test that LMT writes of?

I vaguely remember hearing about that years ago. A quick search found this one: http://www.todbase.org/intro.html

ETA: There is no mention that I've come across of deploying this or any similar test. But of course, this is ILE where they only disclose the test that confirm what they are looking for.

 

[HumanityBlues]

What's inaccurate about that? That's true, she only met Rudy once. Seeing him at a bar she's working at hardly constitutes another 'meeting,' and nothing more than her noticing his presence was ever revealed.

Looks like Sherlock flunked 101.

 

[RoseMontague]

Hi RoseMontague, Danceme, ChrisC and others,
We discussed Rudy's sneakers back in January in comparrison to the person seen walking in the CCTV video. With this in mind, I have a question regarding the post above by RoseMontague.

Rudy mentions wearing Adidas, but I thought he finally admited, months later, to wearing Nike Outbreak II sneakers. I'm not a shoe guy, being a beach dude and all, but those are nice lookin sneakers and I bet that it must have been hard for him to discard those Nike's while on the run in Germany:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6806915#post6806915


Was the Borsini Motivation written before the Nike Outbreak II shoebox was found in Rudy's flat? Or was Rudy Guede lying again?
Thanks for an answer,
RW

PS-It's Interesting to read LMT's theories on the shoes and shoeprints on the current Perugia Shock forum...

It was much later that he admitted this (May 2008) and was after the time he also just happened to remember hearing a girl with Amanda's voice and seeing a girl with Amanda's profile at the murder scene(March 2008).

• Finally, 15 May 2008, voluntarily submit to the PM, stated that the evening did not wear shoes 'Adidas', as stated above, but the brand name "Nike", n, 45 and a half of which was undone Germany, throwing into a dumpster.

 

[zeb]

Kasosium.
Thank you for the hint. so I did read ALT+F4 reasons explaining AK and RS guilt.
But it the same song sheet I read on other web sites.
Like I said before, "give me real facts" that prove AK and RS are guilty.
I wonder what other names this person goes under.
It seems that this person takes the rubbish that the news papers print, and then show it as real facts.
Dranceme.
May I say something to you.
As you, yourself like to insult people who do not agree with you.
Why ?