Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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Are you sure? I mean, couldn't there be a seizure disorder that causes you to post occasionally on an internet forum, discussing all manner of illogical things?

Let's face it, seizures are a way more comforting explaination as to how this thread has gotten this long than the alternative. We actually derive some sort of sick pleasure out of this.

emphasis mine.

I certainly do. I haven't take that thread seriously for , what, something like after the 2nd or 3rd DOC post on this thread, and that was something like 460 page ago. It was clear from the get-go that DOC would present the same argument like a broken record from bad source, and would never ever admit any error/confusion/anything.

So yes, I take this thread as my humorous daily injection. Maybe I am a bad guy for that, but, frankly, I am thankful for DOC for having posted this thread. It adds a nice touch of humour among serious thread like the lockerbie one, the knox one , and whatnot.
 
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We've already discussed this. I have never seen an alleged discrepancy in the Gospels that can't logically be explained.

Given that non falsifiability is not a virtue, I wonder what kind of discrepancy you would find problematic. I get the feeling the you could "logically" explain any problem that might be raised.
 
The verse in the bible has Jesus saying to the disciples not one stone of the temple will be left upon another.

"As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down," (Luke 21:6, see also Matt. 24:1; Mark 13:1)

Jesus doesn't say how the temple will be destroyed. When Jean Dixon predicts in the late 50's a Democratic president will win in 1960 but will not finish his first term she is accurate but she is not actually mentioning in what way. When Jesus predicted the temple was to be destroyed he mentions nothing about how it would be done. And the authors mention nothing about it being fulfilled. This seems odd, why not mention this to their readers as a great prophecy. Not one of the 9 NT writers says anything about this huge event in Jerusalem (the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D. by the Romans) even though at least 3 of the NT writers mention Jesus and the temple.

Translation: They most likely wrote their books before the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D.

DOC, this proves only that Luke was written probably, at least one decade after the Jewish Wars.
 
Given that non falsifiability is not a virtue, I wonder what kind of discrepancy you would find problematic. I get the feeling the you could "logically" explain any problem that might be raised.
You mean he might simply abandon any resemblance of an evidence backed, logical argument and simply proclaim.

with God all things are possible.
 
The verse in the bible has Jesus saying to the disciples not one stone of the temple will be left upon another.

"As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down," (Luke 21:6, see also Matt. 24:1; Mark 13:1)

Jesus doesn't say how the temple will be destroyed. When Jean Dixon predicts in the late 50's a Democratic president will win in 1960 but will not finish his first term she is accurate but she is not actually mentioning in what way. When Jesus predicted the temple was to be destroyed he mentions nothing about how it would be done. And the authors mention nothing about it being fulfilled. This seems odd, why not mention this to their readers as a great prophecy. Not one of the 9 NT writers says anything about this huge event in Jerusalem (the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D. by the Romans) even though at least 3 of the NT writers mention Jesus and the temple.

Translation: They most likely wrote their books before the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D.


Or, more likely, the books were written after the events and Jesus' prophecy was made up after the fact to attribute to him some prophetic powers.

We already know that the writers felt free to make up events to give a more messianic shine to Jesus personality.
For example, the whole census fiasco that we know did not happen: the timing is wrong as no census was conducted during Pilate's reign (I know you pretend there was a second, unrecorded and redundant census) and the idea to send people to their ancestral home makes no sense: it would have been a huge disturbance in the whole country aimed at nothing but be counter-productive - you want to know where people are and where to tax them, not where their long dead ancestors lived.
But this incident was clearly made up to make Bethlehem the site of Jesus' birth, so that to appear to fullfill the messianic prophecy.
We also have the made up claim of a virgin birth. Clearly this was an attempt to appear to fullfill Isaiah 7:14. Problem being, of course, that Isaiah clearly was supposed to have been fullfilled already in the 8th century BCE and, apparently, the whole virginity bit was a misreading...

The massacre of the innocent was a similar made up story aimed at connecting Jesus to Moses. Of course, we have no reason to believe it ever happened, and quite a few to suggest it did not.

There is also some examples of the authors such as Matthew misquoting the old testament to align the text and make them appear prophetical. As was the case in Matthew 3:3 where he misquoted Isaiah 40:3.


TLDR version: we know that that the NT writers had no problem twist their story to make-up signs about Jesus' messianic nature.
That the cryptic mention of the temple's destruction where written after the fact and constitutes but one more example of that behaviour is the most reasonable and parsimonious hypothesis.
 
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Absolutely brilliant!

Thank you for my 15 minutes of fame, your highness!

You really do need to get out more....
 
And Luke, was called a great historian regarding non-supernatural events by a respected archaeologist.
So you're reducing your previous claims about Luke's status as a "Great Historian" and accept that he was so-described by only one (of many thousands) of historians and archaeologists of the Roman era. Who didn't accept the supernatural elements of Luke's writings (or any other part of the bible)...........
Oh well at least it's a start on the path to honesty for you.:rolleyes:

Translation: No, the author of Luke was not an eyewitness.
But he was a "Great Historian":D
Given how wrong amateur historians of today can be about events mere decades in the past, even with modern records, it's no surprise that Luke made a few mistakes about Jesus. Like where and how he was born. How he died. Minor details really.
 
No, I haven't abandoned the claim of several authors and will bring in more information within a week.



With man this might be true but with God all things are possible:

Jesus talking to the apostles about what will happen after he is gone (from John 14:26).

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.


I've already given evidence that the apostles John and the tax collector Matthew wrote the gospels attributed to them for 2000 years. Regarding Mark and Luke, Mark was a companion of the main apostle Peter and could have easily written down Peter's preaching and remembrances. And Luke, was called a great historian regarding non-supernatural events by a respected archaeologist.

We've already discussed this. I have never seen an alleged discrepancy in the Gospels that can't logically be explained.

Try reading them,you'll find quite a few.
 
So you're reducing your previous claims about Luke's status as a "Great Historian" and accept that he was so-described by only one (of many thousands) of historians and archaeologists of the Roman era. Who didn't accept the supernatural elements of Luke's writings (or any other part of the bible)...........
Oh well at least it's a start on the path to honesty for you.:rolleyes:


But he was a "Great Historian":D
Given how wrong amateur historians of today can be about events mere decades in the past, even with modern records, it's no surprise that Luke made a few mistakes about Jesus. Like where and how he was born. How he died. Minor details really.

Luke's mistakes about JC that you mention here may not be included in the "Great Historian" claim by Sir Wossname Ramsey - after all, they're clearly supernatural... :)
 
I've just had a thought...

I use the default post per pages setting, and have noticed that I'm on page 466.

This suggests to me that in 200 pages time, we're likely see the start of the Rapture!

OK - I'll lie down and take the meds..

:D
 
I presume DOC has no idea how we got the N/T at all. Historically, the 27 books of the New Testament had, some scholars claim, as many as 40-50 authors. None were eyewitnesses, none had anything to do with the shady characters named as the apostles.
Each of the gospels we posses today are copies of copies of copies. There is a fragment of the gospel of John which dates to the third century, which is still a copy of a copy if as is claimed, John may have been written no earlier than than the end of the first century, or as late as the first or second decade of the second century.
From this rabble, how anyone can claim the gospelers were writing the truth is beyond me. :confused:
 
As an aside, I recently read a book on the problematic ending of Mark. The Mutilation of Mark's Gospel

At the end of the book is an appendix where the author gives a fairly hefty chronological list of biblical scholars and their opinion on the ending of Mark. My old NT tutor is on there but can you imagine my sheer shock to discover that Norman Geisler doesn't merit a mention? It's almost as if academics working in the field don't regard him as a scholar worthy of any attention, isn't it?
 
As an aside, I recently read a book on the problematic ending of Mark. The Mutilation of Mark's Gospel

At the end of the book is an appendix where the author gives a fairly hefty chronological list of biblical scholars and their opinion on the ending of Mark. My old NT tutor is on there but can you imagine my sheer shock to discover that Norman Geisler doesn't merit a mention? It's almost as if academics working in the field don't regard him as a scholar worthy of any attention, isn't it?

Now that comes as a major shock, as I'm sure you can imagine....

:D
 
Now that comes as a major shock, as I'm sure you can imagine....

:D

Geisler is to Biblical Scholarship
as
Astrology is to Astronomy
Homeopathy is to Medicine
Alchemy is to Chemistry
Calvinball is to Cricket
Screeching Baboons is to Mozart
 
TLDR version: we know that that the NT writers had no problem twist their story to make-up signs about Jesus' messianic nature.
That the cryptic mention of the temple's destruction where written after the fact and constitutes but one more example of that behaviour is the most reasonable and parsimonious hypothesis.


Hmmmm, I can see where you're gonna get caught out in this hell-hole of a thread.



Loving the book Pharaoh.
 
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