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Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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To help visualize the untangled image, imagine you are wearing the bra. Or better, imagine Mignini is wearing the bra and standing on his tip toes with his left had on his hip and his right hand arched above his head.

Also imagine that standing beside Mignini is Patrizia Stefanoni looking like the statue of liberty, holding the torch for freedom and liberty.

Viva la French!

Here is just a fascinating article about Raffaele's family and how they have stood behind him.

http://translate.google.com/transla...g.panorama.it/italia/tag/amanda-knox-kercher/

Families don't waste their time and energy on lost causes or black sheep.
 
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Five members of the Sollecito family are committed to court on the 28th March for essentially illegally obtaining scene of crime video of Meredith’s body and handing over it to TV station Telenorba who aired video.

http://www.giornaledipuglia.com/2011/02/meredith-rinviata-udienza-video-choc-in.html

They obtained the video legally, even the article you linked to admits that. The article also indicates that the purpose of giving the video to the TV stations was to promote Raffaele's innocence.
 
Yes I guess to some, others may think of the impact on Meredith’s family and friends, just as well the authorities acted quickly and blocked any further airing.


And we fall back to yet another appeal for sympathy. Just how much Italian TV does Meredith's family watch there in London? At least Mignini's quick actions kept the video from going viral on YouTube.


I believe this case is directly linked to Vanessa Sollecito being fired from the Carabinieri.


This is not the thread for conspiracy theories.
 
The evidence that there was some aspiration of blood while Meredith was on her back with the bra removed comes from the circular drops of blood on her body where it would have been covered by the bra.

If the diagram is correct, the drops are on the chest area between the breasts. This area would not have been covered by the bra itself but would be between the cups.
 
On an unrelated issue:

An article from The Times, published on 5th November 2007, reports that the police found fingerprints on Meredith's mobile phones, "which they believe will lead to her murderer".

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2806681.ece

One would imagine that if the police were releasing this information to the media, they might have already checked that the prints were not those of either the postal police officers who'd handled the phones on the 2nd, nor the members of Sig.a Lara's family who found the phones and took them to the police station. And if so, thenwhose prints DID they find?

I don't remember anything about fingerprints on the phones coming up in either the trial or in the Massei report. One might deduce from this that any prints found were not after all of any probative value. If Knox's or Sollecito's prints had been found on the phones, this would be potentially very important incriminating evidence against them - unless they had handled the phones when the postal police returned them on the 2nd. And of course Guede's prints on the phones would also be strong evidence against him, particularly in regard to his "version of events". So I wonder what became of these prints on the phones.....

As an afterword, the same Times article reports that "it was also established last night that the murder weapon appeared to have been a penknife". Hmmmmmmmmm.

Oh, and the "police sources" briefing the media still appeared to believe on the 4th/5th November that it was Meredith's bedroom window that was broken - the "source" in this article clearly suggests that the killer locked Meredith's room from the inside then escaped the house via her window. Gotta love that level of police accuracy, over 48 hours into the investigation!
 
If the diagram is correct, the drops are on the chest area between the breasts. This area would not have been covered by the bra itself but would be between the cups.


The lower right portion of the photo would surely be an area that was covered by the bra cup. I think there is other written evidence that there was aspirated blood spray over pretty much all the area of Meredith's chest formerly covered by her bra cups (which I'll try to locate), but understandably there's no photographic evidence of this available outside the court.
 
Re Curatolo: I see some people are weighing in with shouts of hypocrisy regarding the comparison of Curatolo's quality as a prosecution witness with the quality of Aviello or Alessi as defence witnesses.

There are two important factors to remember in this regard: firstly, Curatolo's testimony clearly played a significant part (although heaven knows how) in the first court's determination of Knox's/Sollecito's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. After all, Curatolo placed Knox and Sollecito in and around the basketball court, at times when they swore that they were in Sollecito's apartment. Therefore, if one believes Curatolo's evidence, one must conclude that Knox and Sollecito were lying about their whereabouts on the night of the murder - and the natural onward conclusion is that they can only have been lying because they were involved in the murder (after all, if they HAD been at the basketball court, but only - for example - to smoke up or buy some dope, then surely they would have admitted to their presence there).

The second factor is that Aviello and Alessi may not be needed for their veracity per se: they may be introduced to illustrate how the police/prosecutor became fixated on Knox's/Sollecito's involvement, to the total exclusion of examining other evidence - no matter how tenuous. And of course there's always the possibility that there IS some provable veracity to some of Alessi's/Aviello's claims, which would override their questionable characters. Conversely, in the case of Curatolo, we already know that he has no way of proving what he said he saw - and indeed his version of events is about to be destroyed with hard evidence of disco bus schedules.
 
Another Warm Washing Machine?

I think we would get a better analysis from a student in a high school home economics class than what Stefanoni's BS in biology is able to deduce.

383964d6103e1bdaf3.jpg


It is very clear that the material has been cut. That is how things are made. You cut the material out following a pattern and then stitch it together.

In the end of the band we can see the stitch lines where the strap and clasp were attached. It would take a magician to cut the band outside the stitch line while the clasp is attached.




I thought she was being quite definitive on page 207 of the Massei report:
With reference to the room of the victim showed that she had arrived "there were numerous exhibits" and it posed a bra of particular interest because the straps were frayed, and also there was "an area that was not only missing a piece but it was been cleanly severed "​


One of Raffaele's experts also assumed that the clasp had been cut off. Is it possible that we now have better access to the material than the people who presented the case in the trial?

_____________

Dan,

It gets worse. This fiction, now Gospel, of the cut bra clasp made it into the Massei Report, providing evidence that the assault was a group assault and that Raffaele's DNA was deposited on the clasp hooks while the bra was severed. And as matters stand, the APPEAL documents don't contest the severing of the bra. On the contrary, in Raffaele's APPEAL document, his lawyers argue that the bra was severed without the assailant grabbing the clasp! If they'd known that the clasp was ripped, they could have argued that the assailant didn't grab the clasp, since grabbing the bra by the clasp would only have reinforced that joint and caused the bra to fail elsewhere.

In fairness to the defendants, someone should kindly explain to the defense attorneys that the bra was not cut. Period.

///
 
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Bruises...

Hi all,
I wish to bring something up which I have not seen discussed before.

It was from reading a post that LMT, whom I have quoted before from the blog he/she had, had written on Perugia Shock that I thought of this:

Below is the gist of what I am curious about, where LMT mentions bruising:
<snip>
1. "Bruises: There is confusion about which areas are real bruises and which areas are lividity. You have to start with an estimate of the length of time of death. In this case, most of the experts agreed that it was around ten minutes from the start of the attack. A bruise is a blow or force that breaks capillaries in the skin. Blood flows into the tissue and later turns dark causing the mark. When the heart stops, blood flow to the broken vessels stops so that the real bruises in this case would be light colored. Lividity is when all of the blood in the tissues flows to the area of the lowest level of gravity. This takes a couple of hours and the marks then become dark. In the case summary, I did see mention of some bruises that sounded logical as bruises. I did not see mention of lividity so they must have done that at the trial or they left that out."
<snip>
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Meredith Kercher had bruises on her body. Everyone seems to believe that they were casued when she was brutally murdered.

Might there be another, simpler explanation for some of them?

I'm a guy who has had some fun relationships with women thru-out my life. Some gals liked making love romanticly, some gals liked their luvin' rough, some gals liked to experiment.

From reading in Barbie Nadeau's book "Angel Face", a favorite among the pro-guilt community, I learned that Meredith Kercher had been intimate with her new Italian boyfriend Giacomo for about 10 days before her brutal murder. Barbie Nadeau also let me know that Giacomo and Meredith were already experimenting in their intimate sexual encounters. In Candace Dempsey's book "Murder in Italy" I have learned that Giacomo is muscular also.

With this in mind, is it anyway possible to deduce if any of the bruises on Meredith occurred in the days before her death, possibly from rough, experimental love making?

Thanks for any reply,
RWVBWL

PS-Bein' a surfer with many gal pals, we sometimes tease the girls when they wear their cute lil' bikini's on the beach and you can see bruises, some even a few days old, on their legs or arms. Some gals like their luvin' rough, but hey, no biggie, to each their own.:D
 
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And we fall back to yet another appeal for sympathy. Just how much Italian TV does Meredith's family watch there in London? At least Mignini's quick actions kept the video from going viral on YouTube.





This is not the thread for conspiracy theories.
I assume Vanessa Sollecito is suing the Carabinieri for wrong dismissal given that they fired her actions that are completely legal? No conspiracy just simple facts!

I guess that courts will decide the legality of obtaining the video and passing it to a third party during an ongoing murder investigation. I am not altogether sure how televising the examination of Meredith’s body by forensic officers could at that time have assisted Raffaele.
 
Thanks. It is interesting that Google actually translates some of those words. Seriously, the whole family was wiretapped, and curiously they were trying to use their influence to show that Raffaele was being railroaded. They even called the cops and prosecutors some bad names.
I fully understand the families wish to defend Raffaele to best of their abilities. However, I still do not understand how showing the police examining Meredith’s body could have possibly aided proving his innocence, I could understand if the video was linked to the search of his apartment or finding the knife or even the Harry Potter book.
 
I fully understand the families wish to defend Raffaele to best of their abilities. However, I still do not understand how showing the police examining Meredith’s body could have possibly aided proving his innocence, I could understand if the video was linked to the search of his apartment or finding the knife or even the Harry Potter book.

I have not looked at the video but if it shows the same level of professionalism as the collection of the bra clasp, it is no wonder that they wanted it to be shown.

There is no love lost between the police and Raffaele's family. When a family member of Raffaele's house was broken into a member of the police commented in the waste logs "I'm glad, too little" (page 125 Raffaele's appeal).
 
going fishing

I have not looked at the video but if it shows the same level of professionalism as the collection of the bra clasp, it is no wonder that they wanted it to be shown.

There is no love lost between the police and Raffaele's family. When a family member of Raffaele's house was broken into a member of the police commented in the waste logs "I'm glad, too little" (page 125 Raffaele's appeal).

RoseMontague,

From the Babel Fish translation of the link above, it is said of the family: "They wanted to demonstrate that the scientifca it has worked dirty in order to embed Raffaele."
 
I fully understand the families wish to defend Raffaele to best of their abilities. However, I still do not understand how showing the police examining Meredith’s body could have possibly aided proving his innocence, I could understand if the video was linked to the search of his apartment or finding the knife or even the Harry Potter book.


Speaking of police bungling the investigation, would it be OK to give the press the uncut video of the collection of Meredith's bra where they point out the missing end and the subsequent discovery of the clasp which they photograph and then apparently fail to collect?
 
Speaking of police bungling the investigation, would it be OK to give the press the uncut video of the collection of Meredith's bra where they point out the missing end and the subsequent discovery of the clasp which they photograph and then apparently fail to collect?
I believe there is a section for Conspiracy Theories elsewhere.
 
Speaking of police bungling the investigation, would it be OK to give the press the uncut video of the collection of Meredith's bra where they point out the missing end and the subsequent discovery of the clasp which they photograph and then apparently fail to collect?
Seriously, I believe the media can and should be used by Police during investigation, such as the Washington snipers to flush out suspects. However, I do believe that the press can go too far and end up being a hindrance or an obstacle to an investigation or justice. You may agree that sensationalist tabloid media did a lot of harm to Amanda, which was wrong as was televising the murder victim being examined. That's my opinion either way.
 
I believe there is a section for Conspiracy Theories elsewhere.

Your total evasion is noted.


Wa are talking about incompetence not conspiracy. Do you even have a rudimentary understanding of the evidence in this case?

Here is a portion of the crime scene video index for November 3rd that I pieced together from the publicly available sources:

2007-11-03

00:19:26 .. 00:19:32 - Mark on floor SexLiesMurder#Part 4 8:05
00:20:05 .. 00:20:11 - Footprint evidence at #3 TG 01-04-2008 1:54, DateLine Trial#Part 3 3:46
00:20:10 .. 00:20:10 - Shoe print closeup SexLiesMurder#Part 4 8:16
00:20:40 .. 00:21:08 - Collecting biological evidence at #3 TG 01-04-2008 02:00
00:26:57 .. 00:27:02 - Collecting sample at #2 DateLine Police 1:20
00:27:07 .. 00:27:09 - Closing sample vile, holding tweezers DateLine Trial#Part 3 3:48
01:07:42 .. 01:07:44 - Collecting blood at "J" DateLine Trial#Part 4 2:37
01:06:25 .. 01:06:26 - Debris at "J" DateLine Trial#Part 1 0:00
01:17:04 .. 01:17:02 - Meredith's room, bedside lamp, table 48Hours Nightmare#Part 2 03:20
01:17:12 .. 01:17:14 - Top of bed DateLine Trial#Part 4 2:39
01:22:23 .. 01:22:31 - Collecting Bra Frank SFarzo 2:48
01:22:26 .. 01:22:32 - Collecting Bra SexLiesMurder#Part 1 1:41, 48Hours Nightmare#Part 4 3:33
01:22:27 .. 01:22:28 - Collecting Bra TG 01-04-2008 1:21
01:22:29 .. 01:22:30 - DateLine Trial#Part 2 6:21
01:22:30 .. 01:22:41 - Collecting bra SexLiesMurder#Part 4 9:02, DateLine Trial#Part 4 02:42
01:23:43 .. 01:23:48 - Left foot (another angle) DateLine Trial#Part 3 1:59
01:23:51 .. 01:23:56 - Collecting underwear SexLiesMurder#Part 1 1:35, 48Hours Nightmare#Part 4 3:41
01:23:56 .. 01:24:01 - Stuffing underwear into bag DateLine Trial#Part 3 3:52
01:46:18 .. 01:46:18 - Meredith body exposed TG 01-04-2008 0:54
01:52:42 .. 01:52:42 - Knife wound on Meredith's neck TG 01-04-2008 0:51
02:02:18 .. 02:02:24 - putting blood stained towel? in plastic evidence bag TG 01-04-2008 0:55
02:24:09 .. 02:24:12 - Debris on floor? SexLiesMurder#Part 4 9:15
02:24:41 .. 02:24:47 - Bra clasp on floor SexLiesMurder#Part 4 9:22, DateLine Trial#Part 3 0:18, DateLine Trial#Part 4 2:45
02:24:41 .. 02:24:50 - ... 48Hours Nightmare#Part 4 3:46
12:45:30 .. 12:45:32 - Collecting blood sample 176 from wall behind Meredith's bed (3 stills)[7]
12:58:05 .. 12:58:11 - Collecting sample at "M" inside closet in Meredith's room DateLine Police 1:29
13:00:05 .. 13:00:09 - Collecting sample at "K" DateLine Police 1:25
​
 
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