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What is the goal & objective of Holocaust denial?

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Thunder

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Why do they deny the Holocaust? What are they trying to achieve?

there are a few possibilities:

a. defend the honor and reputation of Adolf Hitler and the Nazis.

b. make it possible to have a revival of Nazi political power in Germany and elsewhere.

c. portray the Jews as a lieing, manipulating people who have hoodwinked the world, and therefore must be "dealt with".

d. justify genocide and/or exile of the Jewish people.


..which one do YOU think it is?
 
I would add 'being against the mainstream as a matter of opinion"
 
i have yet to witness a Holocaust-denier who seems to simply be a contrarian...or a Devil's Advocate.

Some of them seem to adopt an apologist stance for the sake of doing it. Often at the expense of the US - example Pearl Harbor etc get into the mix.

With one or two exceptions I have found their knowledge of history to be of a low level, and their ability to understand causality exceedingly limited.
 
The real objective is to make it easy to identify them as batcrap crazies. That way, we don't have to put ear tags on them.
 
In all honesty the goals and objectives of Holocaust denial are rather divorced these days from their motivations.

Although some deniers are exceptionally delusional even by denier standards, and might actually believe that 'revisionism' is capable of bringing about a Third Reich revival or bringing down the state of Israel, the majority are probably realistic enough in their heart of hearts to know that they are little more than an irritant, and therefore, their goals and objectives are as follows:
  • to act like jackasses
  • to get attention and be told they are jackasses
  • to gratify their egos by getting attention and being told they are jackasses
  • to convince themselves they are special and important because everyone tells them they are jackasses
  • to provoke such disgust and contempt by being jackasses that they are insulted, disciplined, banned, ejected or - fantasy of fantasies - jailed, thereby validating their belief that they are Galileo
In short, the overwhelming majority of deniers embrace their views for the same reasons as any other garden variety conspiracist troll touts their shtick: narcissicism, the Dunning-Krueger effect, and a wholly irrational belief that they are privy to a great insight into recent history which as it is roundly rejected by 99.9% of the population, is self-evidently 'true' to them, since they are contrarians.

Though some of this breed claim they believe in something called 'Revisionism', in my experience the number of deniers who actually agree with 'Revisionist' texts longer than a short article penned by Faurisson and who have really read from cover to cover books by Butz etc, is less than 10% of all denier trolls online. Another 10-30% pretend they believe in something called 'Revisionism', but in fact have never read an entire denier book cover to cover. The rest simply make it up as they go along, supplemented with occasional glances at shorter denier articles or the odd YouTube-style video.

The majority of denier arguments are formulated as memes, which is why they repeat themselves over and over and over again, simultaneously seeking to annoy and bore their targets to death. Occasionally a denier might stir itself enough from its lethargy to engage in a classic Gish Gallop, but this is actually a rare event, and most prefer to engage in a pseudointellectual Thermopylae discussing one piece of evidence at a time, viz. most of the discussions on this forum. Requests to discuss more than one piece of evidence at a time usually result in the denier spewing out rationalisations as to why this is impossible or attempts to change the subject, or are met with deafening silence. In this respect, denier argumentation online has descended to roughly the same level as any other conspiraloon belief system, except that a certain minority of deniers are evidently deeply uncomfortable making conspiracy claims and try to avoid them like the plague, while the rest blether tediously about a wholly undefined and unproved 'holohoax'.

In a few cases - largely confined to the group of deniers who pretend to believe in 'Revisionism' - denial is also really little more than 80s retro, fantasising about supposed glory days which the deniers either experienced or believe they experienced because of what they have read on VHO, CODOH, IHR etc. They would much rather the clock be turned back to 1985 than 1935.

While it is quite true that the overwhelming majority of deniers are antisemites and fall down the 'revisonist' rabbit hole because of their antisemitism, in actual practice this antisemitism does not really define their goals and objectives. To the extent that there is any relationship at all between deniers' antisemitism and their goals, it is to act like jackasses by annoying 'the Jews'. Irritating 'the Jews' might therefore be considered the prime objective of the majority of deniers. Getting a rise out of them and sucking 'the Jews' into a prolonged argument would be best. Forcing 'the Jews' to ban/eject/jail them would be better still, as martyrdom evidently validates their embrace of the delusional architecture of denial. Since fundamentally deniers are only in it to act like jackasses, they have a fairly high success rate in getting themselves banned/ejected/jailed, which allows the delusional system to propel itself forward a little longer.

Fundamentally, therefore, denial is a form of masochism. This is the only possible conclusion I can come to which explains little grey rabbit, anyway.
 
i have yet to witness a Holocaust-denier who seems to simply be a contrarian...or a Devil's Advocate.

Oh, I have seen a few that are the types the latch on onto anything that is "daring""anti standard opinion" and "edgy". But the overwhelming majority are Nazi apologist and Anti Semites.
 
According to a quote on the bottom of Nizkor's homepage from a minor neo-Nazi party webpage, it's to make National Socialism a viable alternative again.
 
The Strange Case of David Cole

i have yet to witness a Holocaust-denier who seems to simply be a contrarian...or a Devil's Advocate.

Then you've never heard of Jewish Holocaust denier David Cole. (Yes, I said a Jewish Holocaust denier. Cole's parentage is Jewish on both sides.) Here he is on the Phil Donahue Show in 1994.


Michael Shermer who was on that Donahue episode with Cole wrote about him later in this book (starting on page 200).

Perversity and contrariness probably wasn't Cole's sole motivation but that played obviously a big part. Cole didn't just dabble in Holocaust denial. He was on the board of the Institute for Historical Review and went to Auschwitz to make a denier-financed video "debunking" the gas chambers.

(Side note to Thunder: The usual "self-hating Jew" epitaph is too simplistic to account for someone like Cole.)
 
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To show their love for Hitler and to show the world that they hate Jews.
 
Why do they deny the Holocaust? What are they trying to achieve?

there are a few possibilities:

a. defend the honor and reputation of Adolf Hitler and the Nazis.

b. make it possible to have a revival of Nazi political power in Germany and elsewhere.

c. portray the Jews as a lieing, manipulating people who have hoodwinked the world, and therefore must be "dealt with".

d. justify genocide and/or exile of the Jewish people.

..which one do YOU think it is?
a and b are most likely - which is odd since c actually applies to things like nazi's and their little b-boys - such as we see some of posting in these parts.
 
a and b are most likely - which is odd since c actually applies to things like nazi's and their little b-boys - such as we see some of posting in these parts.
I think you're giving the rank and file holocaust-denier to much credit. Could be as dimwitted and simple as thinking if they could somehow disprove the holocaust anti-semitism will become acceptable enough again that they can spout their drivel in public without people regarding them as utter cretins.
A small minded goal for tiny minded people.
 
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Why do they deny the Holocaust? What are they trying to achieve?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial

Holocaust denial consists of claims that the genocide of Jews during World War II—usually referred to as the Holocaust[1]—did not occur at all, or that minimizes its nature or extent. The key claims of Holocaust deniers are: the German Nazi government had no official policy or intention of exterminating Jews, Nazis did not use extermination camps and gas chambers to mass murder Jews, and the actual number of Jews killed was an order of magnitude lower than the historically accepted figure of 5 to 6 million.
 
I think it's very simple: the Holocaust gave white supremacism a bad name, so explaining it away as a hoax gives the haters a nice white-wash, plus gives them an excuse for hating on the darkies. 'sides, Hitler is a hero to them, since he did away with all those jooos...

In other words: It didn't happen, but they deserved it.

Scuse me, I have to go wash my brain out with soap now.
 
I've always had a hard time getting my head around the motivation of Holocaust deniers. Mostly because pretty much all of the ones I've heard seemed to wish it was true.

ArmillarySphere said:
In other words: It didn't happen, but they deserved it

Yep, that's exactly how I've interpreted their position. Allthough to be fair, the ones I'm thinking of are hate-spewing neo-Nazis. I've always found it ironic that they of all would bother with this kind of white-washing. It's almost as if they care about what people think of them. :rolleyes:

But I realize that it's not neccessarily all Holocaust deniers who agree with that position. At least not publicly.

I suspect that you could find examples of all four categories of goals and objectives among deniers. But I have no idea which is the most common. The neo-Nazis I've heard, seemed to have all four of them at once though.
 
You know when you walk into a room full of new people, and you try to make a good impression, because you don't want your actions to ruin your good reputation?

Well, the exact opposite of that.
 
I've always had a hard time getting my head around the motivation of Holocaust deniers. Mostly because pretty much all of the ones I've heard seemed to wish it was true.

Yep, that's exactly how I've interpreted their position. Allthough to be fair, the ones I'm thinking of are hate-spewing neo-Nazis. I've always found it ironic that they of all would bother with this kind of white-washing. It's almost as if they care about what people think of them. :rolleyes:
Haters don't exactly start from a position of intellectual honesty, so I suppose part is just trying to drown out the sound of reality breaking their precious illusions. Racism in general serves much the same function as other CTs - a pretty fantasy of placing yourself among the winners, when the reality is anything but. Most racists (though, admittedly, not all) have little education, are frequently unemployed or in minimum-wage jobs and few prospects of being relevant. Dreaming that they're fighting for some cause gives them some sorely needed self-confidence, without having to do something as daring as leaving their mom's basement.

I suspect that you could find examples of all four categories of goals and objectives among deniers. But I have no idea which is the most common. The neo-Nazis I've heard, seemed to have all four of them at once though.

Four? I didn't see that many ... care to list them?
 
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Edited to remove quote of post that was moved to the split thread


Evidently, the goal and objective of deniers on this forum is to turn themselves into poster children for lack of reading comprehension.

How, pray tell, was your post in any way, shape or form actually responsive to the post you ostensibly replied to? Here is it again:

It would be interesting to hear from the 'revisionists' what they THINK their goals and objectives are ON THIS FORUM.
Try again, this time in your own words.
 
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