South Tower 81st floor filled with thermite?

[twinstead]

National security. That's it! The cover-up has been done out of the need for national security, including George W. Bush who started the cover-up by lying publicly about seeing the first plane crash into the tower on television.

Or he was just mistaken. God forbid you actually accept the more rational answer

Yes, 100,000 people participated in setting up 9-11 and kept secret for national security reasons. LOL. Like I said. What would be the reaction when they realized their preparation was for mass murder of 3000 of their own countrymen? Think a couple of them may have been a tad pissed? Or somebody covering up the event having a bout of conscience?

Why after 10 years has NOBODY come forward with a deathbed confession that they were a member of the team that rigged the explosives, or they had a hand in falsifying evidence, or they were a member of a team planting airplane parts at the Pentagon, or...well, you get the point. Your position on 9-11 is irrational in the extreme.

 

[Triterope]

Holy crap that's facepalm HEAVEN!

It really is. He starts with an out-of-context quote reported by Eric Bollyn on Eric Hufschmid's website, follows it up with a ludicrous misunderstanding of what a UPS is, and has now shifted to... oh, you meant the animated GIF.

 

[Anders Lindman]

Anders, you can't have a perfect conspiracy or cover up without someone coming forward with documents & evidence to blow the whole thing wide open. Conspiracies don't work like that.

Why hasn't anyone come forward?

FYI: I know this is off topic but consider the JFK Conspiracies. People think there were multiple gunmen. But the fact is, if there were multiple gunmen, can any theorist explain why L.B. Johnson wasn't hit or killed by these gunmen when he was in the motorcade in a car behind JFK's car? No they can't!

But many people may have tried to expose the conspiracy, but been laughed at and ignored. Just say "no planes" and people start laughing.

 

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

But many people may have tried to expose the conspiracy, but been laughed at and ignored. Just say "no planes" and people start laughing.

Yeah, but that doesn't explain why JFK was hit & LBJ wasn't in the same motorcade. Multiple gunmen? Yeah right!

See Anders, your theories are like the mythical JFK gunmen. You can't prove that they existed.

 

[twinstead]

But many people may have tried to expose the conspiracy, but been laughed at and ignored. Just say "no planes" and people start laughing.

Um, Anders, usually whistle blowers have inside information and incontrovertible evidence. Hence the term. You can't just get some guy shouting NO PLANES with no evidence and NOT get laughed at. Hell I can make a claim that pink unicorns exist because some guy claimed they do and got laughed at. But, bring a real pink unicorn to a press conference? NOW you got something.

REAL whistle blowers often risk their very lives to bring justice--THAT is what real evidence can do. It's happened many many times.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Do you really need to reference one of the worst movies I've ever had the displeasure of sitting through?

I hated Avatar too. Anti-American, pro-insurgent/taliban BS with a sci-fi wrapping.

 

[George 152]

Come on. Anders. Think about it. Why was it kept secret? National security. Do you really think that if the atomic bomb destined for Japan actually went off in Chicago that thousands of people wouldn't be coming out of the woodwork to blow the whistle? Do you think that people involved in plotting and setting up 9-11, once the deed went down, wouldn't put 2 and 2 together? And, are you really comparing the Manhattan Project to 9-11?

Even so, when the bomb went off in Japan it wasn't exactly a secret anymore was it?

Hell. The Russians knew about it while the tests of the technology were going on.
Germany attempted to build one and even the Japs had knowledge..

 

[alphahelix]

It would be interesting to know if the WTC towers had any back-up system for electricity such as diesel generators. Then there would hardly be any need for any individual tenant to have their own huge UPS system filling an entire floor.

Its usually up to the owner of the building whether or not they include emergency/redundant power.

In an IT eviroment you don't want to depend on someone else's generator unless you absolutely have to.

When figuring out how much backup power you need. You need to consider properly built servers with all of the necessary failure tolerance eats a minimum of 500-600W per server.

Then you won't have one server running everything and you won't want to have one of each server so power requirements go up.

Also you have to include the infrastructure equipment, security controls, enviromental and if I rent the whole floor I want to conserve space and have one ups instead of sticking one under every desk for each PC and using up rack space.

and Blades, Z/I/E class IBMs and some of the miniframes still in use require even more power and have more parts to power.

The generator we use here has a relay cut over of 40 seconds, no computer can operate that long without a power source. And if the building owner won't/can't let you install your own generator. Everything has to remain running long enough to bring everything down gracefully otherwise you'll have mush for data.

And ups that can power an entire floor for at least 15 minutes should be large with many batteries you need somewhere to store up all that energy

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

The Manhattan project included 100 thousand people or something like that, and could be kept secret for several years.

The Manhattan Project went public after three years (1942-1945). And secrecy on it was broken (penetrated by soviet spies) from day one.

Oops?

 

[twinstead]

I hated Avatar too. Anti-American, pro-insurgent/taliban BS with a sci-fi wrapping.

I suspect red didn't like it for other reasons though

 

[CORed]

But it was from floor 81 in the South Tower where molten metal could be seen pouring out: http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/theories/docs/st_spout3s.jpg

I think that could have been a result of a lot of thermite used on that floor.

UPS's use lead-acid batteries. Lead has a low melting point, so that accounts for the molten metal, if that's what if actually was.

 

[dafydd]

The Manhattan project included 100 thousand people or something like that, and could be kept secret for several years.

There was a soviet spy there almost from the beginning.

 

[CORed]

The Platypus raises a good point here. Is this paranoia? It appears that Anders is implying the employees of the Fuji Bank are stupid and would never have noticed what they are paying for, even though the clever Truther can figure this out without even having been there.

Yes, definitely...I think the Fuji Bank would pay what probably amounted to millions for these batteries and their installation and not supervised it enough to that a fantastically dangerous situation was being created.

But no Platypus, Truthers are not paranoid. They are approachable in the extreme. They claim the government is brutal; that it murders people, and these murderers walk free. But they post their names, addresses and phone numbers on the Net. If you go to their groups and tell them you are an FBI informant, they'll invite you in because at least you'll listen to them. In fact, merely friending one of them on Facebook is an invitation to be deluged by friend requests by their bazillion and one conspiracy friends.

No, it's not paranoia. I am not sure how to describe. It appears to me to be loneliness and a need for recognition, but it's hard to say.

Actually, I think it is paranoia, combined with a whole lot of stupidity.

 

[CORed]

Having actually read the article, I see that Bollyn claims his source said the units were installed "during the summer prior to 9/11". That could mean any time up to as little as a couple of weeks before the attack. I would imagine that the installation of a large UPS would involve a fair amount of re-wiring, because large amounts of power would need to be re-routed through the UPS switching systems, and I doubt whether it would make any sense to do this before all the UPS units were in place. So, a reasonable explanation might be that the re-wiring was still in progress, and that there was no point in switching the units on until it was completed.

Going a little further, one might expect that the work was being carried out over the weekends, and that some interruptions to power might be expected above the 81st floor of WTC2 while it was going on. That would tally with the Scott Forbes power-down story, which - when boiled down to the bits that are actually supported by evidence - indicates that Fiduciary Trust, occupying floors from 90 upwards, was warned of potential power outages over a 36 hour period at the weekend.

Pure speculation, of course, but it's a reasonable, non-conspiratorial explanation that appears to agree with all the evidence, rather than an insane fantasy that disagrees with most of it.

Dave

Considering the source, I also think there's a fairly high probability that the assertion that the UPS's were never turned on is a large pile of male bovine feces. besides, as I mentioned in another post, the presence of UPS's on that floor is a perfectly reasonable explanation for the molten metal running out of the floor.

 

[CORed]

I just wrote some about that. See post #19 in this thread.

EDIT: It would have been difficult to make real planes hit exactly the floors around where the thermite was rigged. Plus to hijack real planes is difficult and very risky business and who would pilot the planes? And the fire and damage caused by an airliner, without the use of thermite, would perhaps not have been enough to weaken the floors so that the collapse would start on those floors.

So, rigging an entire floor of each of two large skyscrapers withe thermite, and their basements with explosives, was easier than getting 20 guys to hijack 4 planes and fly them into buildings? Sure.
BTW by using planes, they didn't need any thermite, because they had a whole bunch of jet fuel. This is obvious to anybody who doesn't reside in truther-cuckoo-land.

 

[Craig4]

But many people may have tried to expose the conspiracy, but been laughed at and ignored. Just say "no planes" and people start laughing.

I don't laugh. I find the shoddy headwork, gross lack of integrity and willful ignorance of no-planers to be despicable. 9/11 is a serious topic and deserves better than the shear lunacy of the no plane people.

 

[CORed]

This is a classic example of one of the core truther fallacies: that all events have an "official explanation", and that if this "official explanation" is inaccurate then there is proof of deliberate deception. It's a fallacy because there is no requirement for even an "official explanation" to be entirely correct. Even if there is an "official explanation" of the flows seen from WTC2 (I presume this means that these flows were commented on in the NIST report), it's no more than the best explanation someone in an official position could come up with for an event that they themselves did not orchestrate. And it may be wrong. NIST may say that the most likely candidate is window glass with entrained burning debris, but if in fact the flows were molten lead from UPS units, what of it? Both are completely expected events resulting from the airliner impact and subsequent fires.

And if, as is often the case with truthers, the "official explanation" is something they read in Popular Mechanics, 911 Myths or the JREF forum, it's not even in any sense official.

Dave

Well of course it's official, because anybody who disagrees with truther delusions is part of the conspiracy.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Hey Anders. What happened to the Planes if they didn't hit the towers? Where are they? Where are the crews and passengers?

 

[tfk]

I haven't researched the thermite theory much at all, but recently I read an article where they talked about white smoke and thermite. Such as can be seen in this picture:

I ain't read nuthin' bout nuthin', but i recently read an article where they talked about a duck & thermite. Such as can be seen in this picture:


Thermite & Duck:

And in this one:
Thermite & Duck:

And this one:
Thermite & Duck:

And this one:
Thermite & (Oregon) ducks:

Now could someone PLEASE explain what all that thermite is doing in all the pictures that Anders & I posted.

And if you can't, I think that the conclusion of "inside jobbity job" is irrefutable.

tk

 

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

I'm reminded of that duck from Aflack!

"If you have a problem with buildings coming down by the use of thermite, please call Aflack at.........."