South Tower 81st floor filled with thermite?

[Cl1mh4224rd]

What in God's green earth is suspicious about a banking firm installing backup equipment?

Frankly, this sort of statement is why the world doesn't take 9-11 Truthers seriously. You're "suspicious" of the most innocuous things (a type of firm with extensive data storage requirements installing IT backup equipment) and you jump from that to outlandish non-sequitir conclusions (woooo, thermite!)

Remember, this is coming from someone who belongs to group that believes—if they believe anything at all about the motivation—that WTC7 was purposefully demolished in order to destroy incriminating documents.

They obviously don't believe in backups.

 

[Triterope]

Remember, this is coming from someone who belongs to group that believes that WTC7 was purposefully demolished in order to destroy incriminating documents. They obviously don't believe in backups.

Good point.

 

[Anders Lindman]

The seismic data is completely contrary to the notion that explosives were used to bring down the buildings.

The 911 Witness documentary confirms the idea that the seismic recordings for the collapses of the towers show the kind of graphs caused by explosives. I have watched the documentary now and they didn't say anything about inconsistencies in timing in the recorded seismic data vs reported timestamps for key events but I already know that there are inconsistencies (that I even have posted on this forum in the past, but I don't feel like searching for that now).

 

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

The 81st floor where UPS was had batteries, the batteries contained lead & acid & when the fire melted the casings the insides melted away. All you see is lead pouring out.

It's not "thermite", it's lead!

This thread Anders made was a waste of time & space!

 

[ElMondoHummus]

I couldn't find any text that ruled out thermite being used on floor 81. I saw some images of some very curved steel columns. The completely melted steel on floor 81 they may simply have omitted from the report.

And here is the first step demonstrating the Inflationary Model I referenced earlier. Now, in order to keep the thermite theory intact, there has to be a deliberate omission of any mention of molten steel. This not only requires that the authors of the NIST report to be in on the conspiracy, but that also anyone at Ground Zero who should have found the solidified remains of such molten pools but didn't report it, a portion of the Fresh Kills workers out of the 600 NYPD, 50 FBI, 193 Customs Agency, and some subset of the 43,600 people that were given training in how to conduct themselves at the site and actually had been physically present and working there be involved in some manner as well.

Have I missed anyone?

You see, this is what is meant by the convergence of evidence. And why Ryan Mackey's Inflationary Model as well as that Gravy Line ends up making sense. When evidence converges, a claimant does not have to invent Deus ex Machina type explanations to keep the increasingly strained proposal consistent. Rather, the additional elements of the narrative that become apparent by new knowledge flows naturally as consequences of those new data points, and the model does not have to increase in complexity and strain rationality in order to stay intact.

--------

The fact remains that there is a weak irreducible delusion at play here. That core delusion is that thermite is necessary for the collapses to have occured to begin with. And that delusion is encased and protected by an attempt to affirm the consequent via arguing that thermite was present in fake UPS housings. The premise on which the UPS claim rests is not just the hasty generalizations drawn in the linked article, it's that the collapse had to be forced. This is the irreducible delusion, right there. And as Ryan noted back in 2008, "No logic based upon a false premise is ever valid". The real issue is that the original poster misunderstands the issues involved in the collapses, and doesn't understand that they flow naturally from the impact damage and subsequent fires occuring in the aftermath of the collisions. Forum poster Architect attempted to have this discussion with the OP back in September, but all that resulted from that was a demonstration of the lack of understanding on the part of Mr. Lindman here.

Forget thermite. Until Mr. Lindman understands the issues and details regarding the collapses, any arguments involving thermite will be moot since they will be based on the false premise that such would have been necessary to begin with. That is the core delusion. And that is what the OP needs to be reminded of if he chooses to continue posting thermite hypotheses.

 

[Sabrina]

lol @ the Twitter feed comment. Personally I think that my theory is very simple and would be fairly easy to plan and carry out by only a few people.

Right. A few people.

From what I can tell it would involve complicity and knowledge, if not actual participation, on the part of the following:

-The Fuji Bank managers who purchased the "thermite"-filled UPS systems
-The contracting company Fuji Bank hired to install the systems
-The actual workers installing the systems.
-The security guards working at the WTC.
-The dog handlers and their dogs who were there SPECIFICALLY to sniff out explosives entering the building.
-The demolitions crew who installed the explosives in the basement.
-Anyone who happened to be down in the basement for any reason (and there are a lot of legitimate reasons to be down there) and happened to see said crew installing explosives.
-The individuals investigating the collapse who were examining the debris and neglected to mention that there was explosive residue or evidence of thermite burns on various pieces.

By my estimation, that's probably close to a couple hundred people right there. Yeah, sure, you can say, "Well maybe they weren't informed that what they were installing was the sooper-dooper sekrit thermite-filled UPS systems" or "How would a regular maintenance guy spotting some crew working in the basement wiring up explosives know that it was explosives they were planting?" but then you run up against the notion that they would have to either be utterly ignorant after the events of the day that the stuff they saw being installed was unusual and wouldn't comment on it to SOMEONE or weren't told that the UPS systems they were installing weren't actually UPS systems and WERE told when they were installing them "don't bother testing the systems once you get them in place", which I would think would be pretty damn weird.

A few people. Pffft. Right.

 

[Macgyver1968]

And here is the first step demonstrating the Inflationary Model I referenced earlier. Now, in order to keep the thermite theory intact, there has to be a deliberate omission of any mention of molten steel. This not only requires that the authors of the NIST report to be in on the conspiracy, but that also anyone at Ground Zero who should have found the solidified remains of such molten pools but didn't report it, a portion of the Fresh Kills workers out of the 600 NYPD, 50 FBI, 193 Customs Agency, and some subset of the 43,600 people that were given training in how to conduct themselves at the site and actually had been physically present and working there be involved in some manner as well.

Have I missed anyone?

You see, this is what is meant by the convergence of evidence. And why Ryan Mackey's Inflationary Model as well as that Gravy Line ends up making sense. When evidence converges, a claimant does not have to invent Deus ex Machina type explanations to keep the increasingly strained proposal consistent. Rather, the additional elements of the narrative that become apparent by new knowledge flows naturally as consequences of those new data points, and the model does not have to increase in complexity and strain rationality in order to stay intact.

--------

The fact remains that there is a weak irreducible delusion at play here. That core delusion is that thermite is necessary for the collapses to have occured to begin with. And that delusion is encased and protected by an attempt to affirm the consequent via arguing that thermite was present in fake UPS housings. The premise on which the UPS claim rests is not just the hasty generalizations drawn in the linked article, it's that the collapse had to be forced. This is the irreducible delusion, right there. And as Ryan noted back in 2008, "No logic based upon a false premise is ever valid". The real issue is that the original poster misunderstands the issues involved in the collapses, and doesn't understand that they flow naturally from the impact damage and subsequent fires occuring in the aftermath of the collisions. Forum poster Architect attempted to have this discussion with the OP back in September, but all that resulted from that was a demonstration of the lack of understanding on the part of Mr. Lindman here.

Forget thermite. Until Mr. Lindman understands the issues and details regarding the collapses, any arguments involving thermite will be moot since they will be based on the false premise that such would have been necessary to begin with. That is the core delusion. And that is what the OP needs to be reminded of if he chooses to continue posting thermite hypotheses.

You shore do talk purdy like.

 

[Anders Lindman]

Right. A few people.

From what I can tell it would involve complicity and knowledge, if not actual participation, on the part of the following:

-The Fuji Bank managers who purchased the "thermite"-filled UPS systems
-The contracting company Fuji Bank hired to install the systems
-The actual workers installing the systems.
-The security guards working at the WTC.
-The dog handlers and their dogs who were there SPECIFICALLY to sniff out explosives entering the building.
-The demolitions crew who installed the explosives in the basement.
-Anyone who happened to be down in the basement for any reason (and there are a lot of legitimate reasons to be down there) and happened to see said crew installing explosives.
-The individuals investigating the collapse who were examining the debris and neglected to mention that there was explosive residue or evidence of thermite burns on various pieces.

By my estimation, that's probably close to a couple hundred people right there. Yeah, sure, you can say, "Well maybe they weren't informed that what they were installing was the sooper-dooper sekrit thermite-filled UPS systems" or "How would a regular maintenance guy spotting some crew working in the basement wiring up explosives know that it was explosives they were planting?" but then you run up against the notion that they would have to either be utterly ignorant after the events of the day that the stuff they saw being installed was unusual and wouldn't comment on it to SOMEONE or weren't told that the UPS systems they were installing weren't actually UPS systems and WERE told when they were installing them "don't bother testing the systems once you get them in place", which I would think would be pretty damn weird.

A few people. Pffft. Right.

Yes, a relatively small number of people involved in the initial attacks, let's say a few hundred people. Compare that to the THOUSANDS and thousands of people involved in the huge cover-up of the 9/11 attacks.

 

[The Platypus]

I don't believe the official story. So why not use planes in a kind of false flag attack? Because I believe one key part of the false flag attack was to have the towers collapse. Only then would the event be severe enough to not risk having the event brushed under the carpet. AND, if they needed to collapse the towers, they needed to make sure that the collapse would look like caused by airplane crashes. A real plane might NOT have been enough to cause enough weakness on the floors where the collapse must start in order for the staged event to look convincing. And therefore real planes could not be used.

Well if you don't want to accept reality and instead choose to conjure up delusions, that's your choice.

But we all make our own choices too, and I don't believe your delusional speculations of "why not" and "might have" and "could have".

 

[Sabrina]

Yes, a relatively small number of people involved in the initial attacks, let's say a few hundred people. Compare that to the THOUSANDS and thousands of people involved in the huge cover-up of the 9/11 attacks.

Anders, let me ask you a question.

Have you ever heard the saying, "Three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead"?

Are you SERIOUSLY saying that out of the literally HUNDREDS of thousands of people who would have to be involved in a cover-up, there isn't ONE person who would come forward a la Deep Throat and cop to that to the press? The likelihood of that is so infinitesimal that it is utterly preposterous to legitimately espouse such a theory. Are you honestly saying that is what you believe?

If so, there is no hope for you, I'm afraid, and I wash my hands of you.

 

[Anders Lindman]

Now, in order to keep the thermite theory intact, there has to be a deliberate omission of any mention of molten steel. This not only requires that the authors of the NIST report to be in on the conspiracy, but that also anyone at Ground Zero who should have found the solidified remains of such molten pools but didn't report it...

I have forgot to mention it in this thread, but I make a distinction between the actual 9/11 attacks and the huge cover-up that has been done after the event. NIST is a part of the massive cover-up, but NIST is NOT guilty of any conspiracy related to the actual attacks.

Those who planned and carried out the 9/11 attacks, at least the attacks on the WTC, were people OUTSIDE ordinary governments, agencies, companies etc.

And yes, the cover-up part is astronomical and easily includes people who worked at Ground Zero.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

You shore do talk purdy like.

 

[Anders Lindman]

Anders, let me ask you a question.

Have you ever heard the saying, "Three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead"?

Are you SERIOUSLY saying that out of the literally HUNDREDS of thousands of people who would have to be involved in a cover-up, there isn't ONE person who would come forward a la Deep Throat and cop to that to the press? The likelihood of that is so infinitesimal that it is utterly preposterous to legitimately espouse such a theory. Are you honestly saying that is what you believe?

If so, there is no hope for you, I'm afraid, and I wash my hands of you.

The Manhattan project included 100 thousand people or something like that, and could be kept secret for several years.

 

[Sabrina]

Where's that double facepalm picture when you need it...

 

[twinstead]

The Manhattan project included 100 thousand people or something like that, and could be kept secret for several years.

Come on. Anders. Think about it. Why was it kept secret? National security. Do you really think that if the atomic bomb destined for Japan actually went off in Chicago that thousands of people wouldn't be coming out of the woodwork to blow the whistle? Do you think that people involved in plotting and setting up 9-11, once the deed went down, wouldn't put 2 and 2 together? And, are you really comparing the Manhattan Project to 9-11?

Even so, when the bomb went off in Japan it wasn't exactly a secret anymore was it?

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Where's that double facepalm picture when you need it...

I got a better one for ya than that.

 

[twinstead]

Holy crap that's facepalm HEAVEN!

 

[Anders Lindman]

Come on. Anders. Think about it. Why was it kept secret? National security. Do you really think that if the atomic bomb destined for Japan actually went off in Chicago that thousands of people wouldn't be coming out of the woodwork to blow the whistle? Do you think that people involved in plotting and setting up 9-11, once the deed went down, wouldn't put 2 and 2 together? And, are you really comparing the Manhattan Project to 9-11?

Even so, when the bomb went off in Japan it wasn't exactly a secret anymore was it?

National security. That's it! The cover-up has been done out of the need for national security, including George W. Bush who started the cover-up by lying publicly about seeing the first plane crash into the tower on television.

 

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

I have forgot to mention it in this thread, but I make a distinction between the actual 9/11 attacks and the huge cover-up that has been done after the event. NIST is a part of the massive cover-up, but NIST is NOT guilty of any conspiracy related to the actual attacks.

Those who planned and carried out the 9/11 attacks, at least the attacks on the WTC, were people OUTSIDE ordinary governments, agencies, companies etc.

And yes, the cover-up part is astronomical and easily includes people who worked at Ground Zero.

Anders, you can't have a perfect conspiracy or cover up without someone coming forward with documents & evidence to blow the whole thing wide open. Conspiracies don't work like that.

Why hasn't anyone come forward?

FYI: I know this is off topic but consider the JFK Conspiracies. People think there were multiple gunmen. But the fact is, if there were multiple gunmen, can any theorist explain why L.B. Johnson wasn't hit or killed by these gunmen when he was in the motorcade in a car behind JFK's car? No they can't!

 

[Triterope]

Yes, a relatively small number of people involved in the initial attacks, let's say a few hundred people. Compare that to the THOUSANDS and thousands of people involved in the huge cover-up of the 9/11 attacks.

So your proof of the conspiracy is that a larger number of people were involved in the cover-up of the same conspiracy? Circular reason much?