Merged Their Return

[Waterman]

Because "Travis Walton" passed a lie detector test...

The other tribesmen DON'T BELIEVE the guy who HAS seen them...

Even though it is possible to trick one of these things, lets assume that it is true. This is merely an expression of what he believes is true, not necessarily what is factual. From what I can tell from other posts on the JREF it is fairly well established that memories are plastic and after a period of time it is difficult to separate the observation from interpretations of that observation. Those interpretations are flavored by the culture in which they occur. Years ago the interpretations were gods, angels, demons, spirits and now aliens, lizardmen and non-human intelligences of terrestrial origin have become more popular.

 

[dafydd]

Yes, but I am a fan of both Yoda and Sarah Palin, so...

You're on the same intellectual level as Sarah Palin.

 

[aggle-rithm]

REQUIRING that:

-ALL the videos and photographs are fake

"Fake" is one possibility. Another is that they simply depict ordinary things that have been misinterpreted.

-ALL the expert witnesses hallucinated or misidentifies common or mundane things

What does someone have to do to be considered "expert"?

-ALL religious and historical notations of heavenly agents are 'fiction'

ALL the books in the fiction section of the library are fiction. What are the odds?

is more complicated are requires ignoring more evidence that accepting...

That 'they' are really just more advanced technological beings, and not "God" at all.

It is more simple to say that we've just misinterpreted history and religion.

You clearly don't understand my previous post.

This kind of thinking can be used to prove ANYTHING.

"How is it possible that ALL the stories of Leprecauns are false? Isn't it simpler to say Leprecauns are real and we just don't look down often enough?"

 

[Elizabeth I]

...The Olympic Opening Ceremonies are watched by the most diverse TV audience the world over. I don't know of another venue that could or would draw the world's attention like this event.

Nope, as has already been pointed out to you, the World Cup is. People all over the world, except the larger percentage of the U.S. population, are incredibly, passionately interested in the World Cup (and there is a significant minority of people in the U.S. who follow football/soccer.)

However, you don't want to hear this, so you ignore it.

This said, I predict that there will be a U.F.O. sighting at or near the royal wedding. I say this, only because it has happened before...historically speaking. 'They' tend to be drawn to big occasions.

Evidence that UFOs have buzzed royal weddings in the past?

And:
Why should this ONE item that you are obsessed with turn out to be in direct contradiction of all human history to date?

 

[King of the Americas]

"Fake" is one possibility. Another is that they simply depict ordinary things that have been misinterpreted.


What does someone have to do to be considered "expert"?


ALL the books in the fiction section of the library are fiction. What are the odds?


You clearly don't understand my previous post.

This kind of thinking can be used to prove ANYTHING.

"How is it possible that ALL the stories of Leprecauns are false? Isn't it simpler to say Leprecauns are real and we just don't look down often enough?"

If people were still seeing Leprecauns and we had oodles of current pictures and videos, then I'd concede the comparison is valid.

Taking religious books as fiction is a mistake.

'Experts' in this case are trained in aircraft ID or are pilots themselves.

That skeptics REQUIRE all 3 of these to be true, in order for them to be right, I see Occam's Razor ignored.

The simplest solution is that "God" isn't..."God" at all, but rather something much less potent.

 

[bruto]

Ah, but they don't really fly close enough for them to get a good look. This is deep dark jungle, and they videographers use telephoto lens to capture what they did.

We DON'T KNOW what the tribesmen know or don't know about the L.W.B.'s... As they 'might' know about other tribes or other humans, they DON'T know exactly what and who is in the L.W.B.'s...

I don't think this is fantasy at all.

There's no "might" here. They have machetes and tin pots and they are known to have fled deeper into the jungle with the encroachment of loggers. You need once again to polish up your understanding of what an "uncontacted" tribe is, and is NOT. Whether they know just what airplanes are and who is in them is still a question, but your persistence in presuming that these tribes are utterly isolated and ignorant is likely misplaced. The planes do indeed fly far enough overhead that they are not reachable, but not so far that they don't look like the same thing every time, and obviously, if you've ever been on the ground when an airplane flew over, they are audible! It is deep dark jungle, but obviously, (really obviously! Look at the pictures!) also non impenetrable. If the telephoto lens can see the people in the clearing, the people in the clearing can see the plane. In at least one of the pictures, you see them looking up. They see the plane. What they think it is we cannot tell, but they are not panicking, calling for others, hiding, or, clearly enough, welcoming it. If this were a hugely important event, one might expect that on hearing the plane approach, they would all come to the clearing. They do not. Those in the vicinity look up with some apparent curiosity, but little else. They are looking at something that may well be rare and unusual, but not so mysterious as to call for special measures. My own guess is that they're looking and thinking something along the lines of "there goes another one of those damn things. I hope the ******s go away. There is, in any case, not one jot, tittle, or iota of evidence that those who are seen to be observing the plane as it flies overhead are going to be considered crackpots or liars when and if they report it to others. Please try again to remember: airplanes are NOISY! You hear them coming! You hear them overhead! You hear them leaving!

All that is essentially irrelevant to my main point. If you accept what you yourself have said about the UFOnians and their current and past record of communication, it is clear that you will never get a plan to work without their cooperation first. It's up to them to make the next move. You are utterly out of luck otherwise.

 

[King of the Americas]

Nope, as has already been pointed out to you, the World Cup is. People all over the world, except the larger percentage of the U.S. population, are incredibly, passionately interested in the World Cup (and there is a significant minority of people in the U.S. who follow football/soccer.)

However, you don't want to hear this, so you ignore it.


Evidence that UFOs have buzzed royal weddings in the past?

And:
Why should this ONE item that you are obsessed with turn out to be in direct contradiction of all human history to date?

Do you have a cite for your FIFA claim:

According to this site: http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire...lympics-draw-largest-ever-global-tv-audience/

...the Olympics are #1.

 

[King of the Americas]

There's no "might" here. They have machetes and tin pots and they are known to have fled deeper into the jungle with the encroachment of loggers. You need once again to polish up your understanding of what an "uncontacted" tribe is, and is NOT. Whether they know just what airplanes are and who is in them is still a question, but your persistence in presuming that these tribes are utterly isolated and ignorant is likely misplaced. ...

...

They may well know 'of' an outside world, but I DON'T think the tribesmen know what the L.W.B. truly represents.

But what does it matter? The only question is how would we know the whole tribe wanted us to make contact with them?

I hold, that IF "all of them" came outside when they expected to see the L.W.B., and tried to wave them down...THAT would be a good sign.

ONE person holding a sign likely would not.

 

[aggle-rithm]

If people were still seeing Leprecauns and we had oodles of current pictures and videos, then I'd concede the comparison is valid.

What would you say to someone who produced lots of pictures and videos of things that were not Leprecauns, but proved the Leprecauns existed because "people don't move like that", or "they couldn't be anything else"?

You might wonder why someone would specifically think "Leprecaun" when there are many things that don't move like people.

Taking religious books as fiction is a mistake.

Another mistake would be assuming that all religious books should be taken at face value because some of the things described are verifiably true. Yet another would be attributing the "all religious books are fiction" claim to a group of people who have never made such a claim.

'Experts' in this case are trained in aircraft ID or are pilots themselves.

Are you familiar with the saying, "If your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail?"

Think about this: Not everything in the sky is aircraft. In fact, before aircraft were invented, NOTHING in the sky was aircraft.

That skeptics REQUIRE all 3 of these to be true, in order for them to be right, I see Occam's Razor ignored.

You also see three strawmen, which you yourself have built.

The simplest solution is that "God" isn't..."God" at all, but rather something much less potent.

The simplest is actually "no God".

 

[bruto]

They may well know 'of' an outside world, but I DON'T think the tribesmen know what the L.W.B. truly represents.

But what does it matter? The only question is how would we know the whole tribe wanted us to make contact with them?

I hold, that IF "all of them" came outside when they expected to see the L.W.B., and tried to wave them down...THAT would be a good sign.

ONE person holding a sign likely would not.

Once you even start talking about wanting "us" to make contact, you must assume that the tribesmen know that the airplane is a vehicle rather than an animal or an unknown automaton. In that case, they have already made quite clear in their history that they eschew contact with others, and if they know the planes contain people, they can make contact with other people in many ways, including just hiking out of their area until they meet some of the loggers they have fled from in the past. If they don't think the plane is a vehicle, then they have no more reason to initiate contact with it than they do with condors or crocodiles.

Anyway, since the airplanes are real, consistent and audible over a very large area as they approach, fly over and leave, the tribesmen do not have the same problem you do. Planes not connected with the photography project have undoubtedly flown over at other times, and distant aircraft have probably been seen for many years. There need be no doubt of their arrival. All tribesmen within the area flown over should have a pretty good chance of gathering and making some kind of group gesture. This is a luxury not granted by the UFOnians, whose approach is stealthy, inconsistent and impossible to confirm.

You're still stuck. If the UFOnians can't get their act together and make their presence less dubious, you'll never succeed. It's their move.

 

[King of the Americas]

...

You also see three strawmen, which you yourself have built.



The simplest is actually "no God".

You can only arrive at that conclusion by ignoring ALL 3 of these phases of evidence...

-Expert anecdotal evidence
-Photographs and videos
-Historical notations

 

[BTMO]

How would the 'tribe' make it known to the guys in the L.W.B., that they wanted them to descend, if not to gather in mass, and try to wave them down?

The Olympic Opening Ceremonies are watched by the most diverse TV audience the world over. I don't know of another venue that could or would draw the world's attention like this event.

This said, I predict that there will be a U.F.O. sighting at or near the royal wedding. I say this, only because it has happened before...historically speaking. 'They' tend to be drawn to big occasions.

"They" don't. But people who believe in them are.

And I would suggest that the type of event most likely to draw the entire world's attention isn't a sporting carnival - it is a flying saucer landing somewhere prominent.

If we assume that these supposed beings are intelligent, have had and are having ongoing contact with us (even if it is via hillbillies, death cults and other "reliable" witnesses) and are capable of interacting with us, it is also reasonable to assume they can monitor our communications, including the internet.

They can read these forums as easily as anyone else on earth. They know we'd be keen to meet them if they are there.

They've seen Star Trek (and Independance Day), so they know that we are willing to be friends with anyone who isn't interested in simply eating our faces.

If you want to contact them, just send them an email - or make a blog posting. Hell, if human intelligence agencies can track email traffic, phone traffic and text messaging, there'd be no need to go to the trouble and expense of interrupting the Olympics on the off chance they might notice. They should (logically) be looking for signs of communication noticing them, and have the means to discriminate the signal from the noise. After all, they have (supposedly) been observing us for millenia. I've only been watching the human race for 47 years, and I find I can communicate with it reasonably well - and that from a cold start.

In fact, let's just try it here. I'll type it in capitals to help their message discrimination integrators figure out explicitly which bit is for them and which is for you. And since it is on the net, it'll be searchable for years - in case they aren't watching right this minute.

I am all goose-bumpy now!

-------------------------

OH MIGHTY E.T. CORN-GODS (OR HOWEVER YOU CHOOSE TO NAME YOURSELVES), PLEASE HEAR OUR PLEA!

TAKE AN AFTERNOON OFF FROM ANAL PROBING AND CREATING YOUR WONDEROUS CROP CIRCLES AND JOIN US IN INTERPLANETARY COMMUNION WITH COFFEE AND CAKE.

YOU HAVE MY ADDRESS AND CELLPHONE NUMBER. DROP IN ANY TIME YOU LIKE, AS THE KETTLE ONLY TAKES A SHORT TIME TO BOIL. WE BURN GASEOUS HYDROCARBONS TO HEAT OUR WATER DIRECTLY, SO CLEARLY OUR TECHNOLOGY IS OF A LEVEL THAT WARRANTS CLOSE, PERSONAL (BUT NOT TOO PERSONAL) INVESTIGATION. FEAR NOT! YOUR CUP WILL BE CLEAN. WE ALSO HAVE TEA, OR ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES IF YOU PREFER. PLEASE, TRY OUR BEER. IT IS GOOD. AND MADE FROM CROPS. UNCIRCLED CROPS. BARLEY MAINLY. YOU PROBABLY KNOW THAT ONE.

I HAVE A DOG. SHE LIKES STRANGERS. I HAVE ANOTHER DOG. SHE DOESN'T, SO I CAN LOCK HER OUTSIDE IF YOU PREFER.

YOURS IN EARTHLY FRIENDSHIP,

BRENTON (AKA BTMO)

-----------------

I'll let you know how I get on.

 

[BTMO]

I'll let you know how I get on.

Ok, that was weird. I just got an email. Suggesting I could use a bigger penis. THEY ARE WATCHING US!!! CLOSELY!!!

 

[jhunter1163]

Address the argument, not the arguer, and be civil and polite. The Corn Mods are watching.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jhunter1163

 

[BTMO]

Address the argument, not the arguer, and be civil and polite. The Corn Mods are watching.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jhunter1163

Sorry - I didn't mean it maliciously, but I can certainly see how it could be construed that way. I promise to be good.



KOTA - I'd like to apologise to you for my behaviour.

Cheers,

Brenton

 

[bruto]

You can only arrive at that conclusion by ignoring ALL 3 of these phases of evidence...

-Expert anecdotal evidence
-Photographs and videos
-Historical notations

Anecdotes from experts who are experts because of their anecdotes, fuzzy photographs and suspicious videos from people apparently unable to hold a camera and focus it on a subject, ambiguous notations by people who also believed in mermaids and basilisks?

Remember, if you have a pile of excrement, it's excrement no matter how much you have gathered, or how carefully you have piled it.

 

[King of the Americas]

Anecdotes from experts who are experts because of their anecdotes, fuzzy photographs and suspicious videos from people apparently unable to hold a camera and focus it on a subject, ambiguous notations by people who also believed in mermaids and basilisks?

Remember, if you have a pile of excrement, it's excrement no matter how much you have gathered, or how carefully you have piled it.

I do not agree with your assessment of the anecdotes, the video and photographic evidence, or what history has had to say on the subject.

RATHER than discard ALL of that evidence, I think the simplest solution here is that "God" isn't in our immediate heavens, 'they' are...

I think any solution that requires you to toss out or ignore the first half of human history is seriously flawed.

 

[bruto]

I do not agree with your assessment of the anecdotes, the video and photographic evidence, or what history has had to say on the subject.

RATHER than discard ALL of that evidence, I think the simplest solution here is that "God" isn't in our immediate heavens, 'they' are...

I think any solution that requires you to toss out or ignore the first half of human history is seriously flawed.

I'm not suggesting that we toss out the first half of human history. Only that we regard it as fallible, and remember the extent to which much of what passes for history depends on second-hand information, bias and belief. There are, after all, huge parts of human history and not-so-historical writing that we routinely throw out without discarding the whole thing. One of the most obvious should be obvious to you, since you yourself are discarding the monotheistic "God" who features so very prominently in much of it.

 

[Elizabeth I]

Do you have a cite for your FIFA claim:

According to this site: http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire...lympics-draw-largest-ever-global-tv-audience/

...the Olympics are #1.

That was in 2008. (ETA: In fact, the story is dated September 5, 2008.) There's been a FIFA World Cup played since then.

When are you going to answer my question?

And:
Why should this ONE item that you are obsessed with turn out to be in direct contradiction of all human history to date?

 

[Correa Neto]

Address the argument, not the arguer, and be civil and polite. The Corn Mods are watching.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jhunter1163

CRAP!

It worked!

Now, if those damn aliens at least could bother learning how to spell "Gods"...

ETA- Please feast only on those who summoned you, OK?