Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Poppy1016]

I watched the lifetime movie,and came away feeling a definite lean towards guilt. I hope legal action will be filed.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

I watched the lifetime movie,and came away feeling a definite lean towards guilt. I hope legal action will be filed.

Im curious has watching the movie changed your view?

 

[Poppy1016]

Watching the movie did not change my view. I feel both Amanda and Merideth were shown in a bad light. My view for the last 2 years has been that there was not nearly enough evidnce to find AK and RS guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Im curious has watching the movie changed your view?

Yea, changed mine a bit, I've said for a long time I'm about 70 to 75 percent sure of guilt - you can now raise that to 80%.

Now about the movie, I bet the greater majority of people that watched it, know nothing about Amanda and this case, I have the feeling those people will definitely be leaning towards guilt and I wonder, is that the reason it is hardly even been discussed here, is everyone here disappointed the way it played out.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Watching the movie did not change my view. I feel both Amanda and Merideth were shown in a bad light. My view for the last 2 years has been that there was not nearly enough evidnce to find AK and RS guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

In what way do you think the movie showed Amanda and Meredith ina bad light?

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Yea, changed mine a bit, I've said for a long time I'm about 70 to 75 percent sure of guilt - you can now raise that to 80%.

Now about the movie, I bet the greater majority of people that watched it, know nothing about Amanda and this case, I have the feeling those people will definitely be leaning towards guilt and I wonder, is that the reason it is hardly even been discussed here, is everyone here disappointed the way it played out.

I doubt that those people who believe in Amanda and Raffaele innocence’s views will be changed by this movie, although I do wonder what the general impact will be.

 

[Malkmus]

In what way do you think the movie showed Amanda and Meredith ina bad light?

I think the link Justinian posted earlier from ABC News does a good job of explaining that.

 

[Poppy1016]

I thought showing Merideth in bed with Rudy was bad. Showing Amanda wearing revealing tops was wrong also.

 

[Magister]

Interesting observation, I wonder how much of what is discussed on blogs will actually appear in the appeal. We are looking at one or two sessions per week starting March ending probably before the summer recess.

The hearing dates fixed so far are:
12 and 26 March
16 April
21 May

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Yea, changed mine a bit, I've said for a long time I'm about 70 to 75 percent sure of guilt - you can now raise that to 80%.

This strikes me on the face of it as being as rational as watching a production of Richard III and leaving the theatre more convinced that the historical Richard III was a villain. Am I missing something?

Now about the movie, I bet the greater majority of people that watched it, know nothing about Amanda and this case, I have the feeling those people will definitely be leaning towards guilt and I wonder, is that the reason it is hardly even been discussed here, is everyone here disappointed the way it played out.

I'm pretty sure any pro-innocence poster who views the discussion of this case as a propaganda war that must be won to put pressure on the Italian legal system would indeed be disappointed by that.

I'm not so much interested in that aspect of the case so it doesn't particularly engage me either way. I think a black comedy focusing on Mignini's exotic fantasies and the struggle to find any evidence for them could be a great story though, and perhaps we'll see such a version one day.

 

[Malkmus]

Yea, changed mine a bit, I've said for a long time I'm about 70 to 75 percent sure of guilt - you can now raise that to 80%.

Now about the movie, I bet the greater majority of people that watched it, know nothing about Amanda and this case, I have the feeling those people will definitely be leaning towards guilt and I wonder, is that the reason it is hardly even been discussed here, is everyone here disappointed the way it played out.

Seeing as how you were so influenced by the movie's portrayal of the case, how did it affect your theory that Amanda ran out of the cottage to get Raffaele and that he came running back with the kitchen knife to defend Amanda, only to suddenly turn on a dime and help Rudy overtake Meredith? I didn't see the movie so maybe that was in there. I hear they got a lot of things wrong.

 

[Fine]

You are correct. The elongation will show the relative angle of impact with respect to the surface normal at each point of impact on the surface. Having a contoured landscape will give a ritcher interpretation of the data. I remember seeing a suitable photo presenting the blood splatter evidence but can't find it right now.

* * *

I think we may see a combination of both. She is moved from the position where she was stabbed to eventually on her back. Hopefully we can find some detailed enough photos to evaluate.

________________________

Here's a fairly good photograph from la Repubblica, showing Meredith's bra as found on her bedroom floor the day after the murder.......

It appears to me that virtually all of the aspirated blood droplets are on the top of the bra cup. Exactly what one would expect were her bra ripped off while she was standing, or on her knees. Not the pattern of aspirated blood expected had it been ripped off while she was on her back.

///

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

It appears to me that virtually all of the aspirated blood droplets are on the top of the bra cup. Exactly what one would expect were her bra ripped off while she was standing, or on her knees. Not the pattern of aspirated blood expected had it been ripped off while she was on her back.

I don't follow your reasoning. If blood was spraying from a wound on her neck and she was lying on her back it seems immediately obvious that there would be more blood on the areas of the bra closest to the wound and less on the areas further away, exactly as we see.

(I don't think this subtopic is materially important to the guilt or innocence of Raffaele and Amanda, which is why I have stayed out of it, but this seemed like such an odd argument I could not refrain from commenting).

 

[Antony]

I doubt that those people who believe in Amanda and Raffaele innocence’s views will be changed by this movie, although I do wonder what the general impact will be.

People whose views are based on the facts will not be influenced by the movie, and my impression is that of those people the overwhelming majority conclude that both Amanda and Raffaele were wrongly accused and wrongly convicted.

From what I can gather about the conduct of the appeal, it may well have no influence there - but it has potential to cause huge problems to the defendants after they are cleared, particularly Amanda. This is the reason why it's so profoundly unfair: it means that her defence team have to act to protect her reputation at the same time as having to present the case at the appeal court.

I haven't seen the movie, but I do know that:

a) the case for a wrongful conviction demonstrates that the investigation was screwed-up and malicious;

b) fictional dramas never show the police and authorities acting in bad faith - except when portraying perceived rogue states.

For these reasons, it's hard to imagine that it can have anything other than a negative impact. Someone tell me that I'm wrong who's seen it.

When the dust of this case settles years from now, I think Lifeline will be seen to have embarked on one of the most ill-considered film projects ever. In one action, they have upset the victim's family, compromised the fairness of the judicial process, and left themselves open to massive ridicule and defamation charges when their portrayal of the case is ultimately shown to be wrong.

Surely the sensible thing would have been to hold off until the full story panned out and the contentious issues were settled, when in any case they would have a much more coherent story to tell.

 

[Dan O.]

Surely the sensible thing would have been to hold off until the full story panned out and the contentious issues were settled, when in any case they would have a much more coherent story to tell.

One possible way to show the story so far would have been to buy the actual trial transcripts and tell the story from all points of view as presented at the trial using reenactments to present what is told in testimony.

But I guess that would have taken more work and gotten in the way of simply making a profit.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

People whose views are based on the facts will not be influenced by the movie, and my impression is that of those people the overwhelming majority conclude that both Amanda and Raffaele were wrongly accused and wrongly convicted.

That is certainly a view shared by those who believe in Amanda and Raffaele innocence, but as we know it is not the only view.

From what I can gather about the conduct of the appeal, it may well have no influence there - but it has potential to cause huge problems to the defendants after they are cleared, particularly Amanda. This is the reason why it's so profoundly unfair: it means that her defence team have to act to protect her reputation at the same time as having to present the case at the appeal court.

It is odd that Amanda parents were initially keen to be involved in the project they tried to arrange a meeting between Amanda and Miss Panattiere, they were blocked by either the court of the prison officials I believe. Raffaele, the Kercher’s and even Amanda’s defence team were against the project from its first inception.

I haven't seen the movie, but I do know that:

a) the case for a wrongful conviction demonstrates that the investigation was screwed-up and malicious;

b) fictional dramas never show the police and authorities acting in bad faith - except when portraying perceived rogue states.

For these reasons, it's hard to imagine that it can have anything other than a negative impact. Someone tell me that I'm wrong who's seen it.

I haven’t seen the movie nor do I particularly wish to although for different reasons than yours. As a poster pointed out on an ABC news article, a lot of people who saw Oliver Stone’s movie JFK believed it was historically accurate, I am sure there are many who still believe so.

I agree that this movie never should have been made whilst the appeal process is in progress that in itself is irresponsible. However, the important audience from the appeals point of view is not the American audience but the Italian, it remains to be seen whether it is shown before the end of the appeal.

When the dust of this case settles years from now, I think Lifeline will be seen to have embarked on one of the most ill-considered film projects ever. In one action, they have upset the victim's family, compromised the fairness of the judicial process, and left themselves open to massive ridicule and defamation charges when their portrayal of the case is ultimately shown to be wrong.

Surely the sensible thing would have been to hold off until the full story panned out and the contentious issues were settled, when in any case they would have a much more coherent story to tell.

Wholeheartedly agree, it is strange that an American cable channel would do this just for the sake of money.

 

[Dan O.]

It appears to me that virtually all of the aspirated blood droplets are on the top of the bra cup. Exactly what one would expect were her bra ripped off while she was standing, or on her knees. Not the pattern of aspirated blood expected had it been ripped off while she was on her back.

I could be wrong about what I remembered of the aspiration pattern on the bra. There was a photo that showed the blood drops on her chest under where the bra would have been and I thought it mentioned the same pattern also on the bra.

In any case, unless someone has experience physically assaulting woman, it wouldn't be presumed that a bra could just be ripped off. If the intent was to remove the bra, it would have been unhooked and/or the straps cut.

The strain on the clasp shows a significant force was used to pull on the band. If we exclude using this force to remove the bra that leaves attempting to restrain Meredith or moving her. If she is standing or kneeling, that much force would pull her over backwards. Perhaps she could be falling but the the force would have been pulling up and not strained the right strap that has to peel off first.

Unless someone comes up with another viable option, I see Meredith already on the floor face down or on her left side when the band is pulled ripping off the right strap and clasp. If the left strap also failed at this time, the entire bra would have been pulled out from under the right arm. I don't see this as likely because the bra would have either been dropped or discarded behind the assailant which would have left the bra in the center of the room or by the bed. If instead, the stance is shifted to grab the left strap from the front, when the strap breaks and the bra is discarded behind the assailant, it ends up at meredith's feet. In either case, the bra could have come off before Meredith was turned onto her back.

The location of marks on Meredith's left arm would indicate how the bra was being pulled before the strap broke. This however doesn't appear to have been recorded.

 

[Angeltke2]

I have no idea if Amanda is guilty or not but I do believe that Meredith's family desires to have closure. Why was this just a joke trial an innocent person was murdered and it seems no one really wanted the truth. Then Italy decides to waste more money by bringing a libel suit against the Knox parents because they actually said something that was said in court, but now because they are saying it they decide its a crime. Do they just make up new laws each day? Personally I think that the person that murdered this girl is in prison and I think it was just that one person "Rudy". Go the extra mile Italy for the right reasons and find the truth, do this because its the right thing to do.

 

[bri1]

I have no idea if Amanda is guilty or not but I do believe that Meredith's family desires to have closure. Why was this just a joke trial an innocent person was murdered and it seems no one really wanted the truth. Then Italy decides to waste more money by bringing a libel suit against the Knox parents because they actually said something that was said in court, but now because they are saying it they decide its a crime. Do they just make up new laws each day? Personally I think that the person that murdered this girl is in prison and I think it was just that one person "Rudy". Go the extra mile Italy for the right reasons and find the truth, do this because its the right thing to do.

Welcome, Angeltke2. I definitely agree that the complete lack of desire on the police's part to find out the truth of what happened to Meredith is shocking and unjust. I wonder how many policeman in any country realise that it is their moral duty to try and get to the truth of a situation, though. I think a lot of them forget that due to the pressure of meeting targets and covering their own behinds. Or maybe it's never explained to them?!

 

[Justinian2]

Gosh that is a long list, do you think any of it will be raised by either defence teams?

I don't think logical fallacies are discussed in court. I believe that the evidence shown in a court usually has a basis in solid fact and expert testimony.

Presenting theory as fact (the cooperation between RS, AK and RG), presenting false evidence (the footprints, kitchen knife DNA, and bra clasp DNA) and poor eye witnesses (a professional witness/drug dealer) should totally enrage the judicial comunity all over the world. This trial made a mockery of justice and made it seem that humans are incapable of administering justice.

Judicial people and governments all over the world should be ashamed of what has been allowed to happen in this Italian court.