NASA Engineer (ret.) is a Twoofie?

[beachnut]

... from an impactor air-vehicle.
...

Flight 77 impacted the Pentagon. Are you saying your fellow government employees faked it?

What a cute term for the vehicle of death flown by a terrorist pilot, killing Americans. Who faked the DNA data in your fantasy?

F=1/2mv², term not used by 911 truth, and the drugged up CIT failures.


http://www.fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build03/PDF/b03017.pdf Engineering and Science make your claims false.

 

[WildCat]

You may not be aware of this leftysergeant, but the "pointed end" of your funnel-shaped pattern was not a single "exit" hole in the C RING. It was three identical 9' diameter holes spaced along the C RING wall. The Washington Post published a graphic immediately after (maybe the next day) indicating where each of the three holes were, showing them with color-coded dots.

Why would you reference Honegger if it's from the WaPo? Shouldn't you cite the date and issue of the WaPo it was in, so others coulod confirm?

I think I found the graphic! And as usual, truthers have it all wrong. It's just the age-old mistake they've always made when discussing the Pentagon, they don't know the rings didn't extend to ground level.

Graphic here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/graphics/attack/pentagon_3.html

dadeets, you get 1 laughing dog for failing to get it right after 9 years of "research":

eta: they published a more accurate version a few weeks later, on Sept. 23: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/graphics/attack/pentagon_7.html

 

[The Big Dog]

Yes, I'm sure as far as the 3 holes.

Now, as to what caused the holes. I didn't go into her views on that, but lets just say it wasn't from an impactor air-vehicle.



How can this contradict CIT? The North side witnesses don't say anything about the hole(s) in the C RING. If there is a difference of opinion between Honegger and CIT on C-RING hole, it can't be a very significant difference.

REALLY? I just read her article that you failed to link to. It does not support your claim. She did not make that claim.

She does claim that the hole was caused by a plane, which your heroes dismiss as nonsense.

If you don't even understand the theories you claim to support, stop wasting our time.

 

[dadeets]

This is wrong. There was only one hole into AE Drive.

Reference, Pentagon Building Performance Report, ASCE. Read it here.

Some observations on the Building Performance Report

BPS Team Inspection with respect to airplane parts

Team leader Paul Mlakar only had limited access to the site while rescue and recovery operations were still in progress. He didn’t mention if he saw airplane parts.

When the full BPS Team was given access, all airplane parts had been removed.

Engines

The BPS Team was strangely quiet concerning what they thought happened to the engines. (Other than saying the left engine struck an external steam vault before the fuselage entered the building).

Hole into AE Drive

The BPS Team doesn’t offer an opinion as to what they thought caused the hole. (An engine might have been a candidate, one would think.)


Therefore:

A reasonable assumption is that the hole shown in the BPS Team Report is not associated with the path of debris. It is, rather, presumably associated with rescue and recovery operations.

By showing the hole in the BPS Team Report, I’m guessing it is only there as an incidental matter. If so, it does not mean to imply there was only one such hole, or at least it shouldn’t have.

 

[carlitos]

So when NIST says "there was A hole," what they really meant was "there were 3 holes." That's great. What color is the sky in your world?

The aircraft had entered the building at an angle, traveling in a
northeasterly direction.With the possible exception of the immediate
vicinity of the fuselage’s entry point at column line 14, essentially
all interior impact damage was inflicted in the first story:The
aircraft seems for the most part to have slipped between the firstfloor
slab on grade and the second floor. The path of damage
extended from the west exterior wall of the building in a northeasterly
direction completely through Ring E, Ring D, Ring C,
and their connecting lower floors.There was a hole in the east wall of Ring C, emerging into AE Drive, between column lines 5 and 7 in Wedge 2 (figure 5.16).The wall failure was approximately 310
ft from where the fuselage of the aircraft entered the west wall of
the building.The path of the aircraft debris passed approximately
225 ft diagonally through Wedge 1 and approximately 85 ft diagonally
through a portion of Ring C in Wedge 2.

Columns and beams along the path of the debris and within the
fire area were damaged to varying degrees.Some columns and beams
were missing entirely (figure 5.17), while others nearby sometimes
appeared unscathed.

How can anyone read the above and not think that the hole was in the path of damage?

 

[dadeets]

I think I found the graphic!

Graphic here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/graphics/attack/pentagon_3.html

I've uploaded a closeup from the graphic I have in mind.

 

[The Big Dog]

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_435534d6411217a164.jpg[/qimg]

I've uploaded a closeup from the graphic I have in mind.

Here is the original claim:

The Washington Post published a graphic immediately after (maybe the next day) indicating where each of the three holes were, showing them with color-coded dots.

(This information available in Barbra Honegger's "The Pentagon Attack Papers.")


What have we learned:

1. the Washington Post did not post that graphic
2. they didn't do it immediately after
3. they didn't do it the next
4. it does not show three holes caused by the plane and debris.
5. the information is not in Honegger's "The Pentagon Attack Papers."
6. Honegger claims that an aircraft caused the one hole we do see.

 

[DGM]

Some observations on the Building Performance Report

BPS Team Inspection with respect to airplane parts

Team leader Paul Mlakar only had limited access to the site while rescue and recovery operations were still in progress. He didn’t mention if he saw airplane parts.

When the full BPS Team was given access, all airplane parts had been removed.

Engines

The BPS Team was strangely quiet concerning what they thought happened to the engines. (Other than saying the left engine struck an external steam vault before the fuselage entered the building).

Hole into AE Drive

The BPS Team doesn’t offer an opinion as to what they thought caused the hole. (An engine might have been a candidate, one would think.)


Therefore:

A reasonable assumption is that the hole shown in the BPS Team Report is not associated with the path of debris. It is, rather, presumably associated with rescue and recovery operations.

By showing the hole in the BPS Team Report, I’m guessing it is only there as an incidental matter. If so, it does not mean to imply there was only one such hole, or at least it shouldn’t have.

Are you saying rescue workers blasted the hole to get out?

 

[beachnut]

...

I've uploaded a closeup from the graphic I have in mind.

Which proves 77 did it. Good work on joining reality instead of drugged up CIT lies. Good job.

There could be many holes, who is going to stop part of a plane going 488 knots. In the floor where 77 hit with people on board, there are no rings just offices until you get to the exit holes. You posted exit holes in a ring where they should be called entrance holes; WHY did you put up stuff which is off? Why are you using error filled diagrams as your evidence?

What happen to the people in your fictional account of 911, the anti-government account you have? What happen?

What are the major strong parts of a 757? Any clue? Which parts would have the energy to break through things.

There were no explosives used, explosives do not cause kinetic energy impact holes, the big one at the Pentagon. Plus explosive kill people with blast effect, zero blast effects from explosives.

Why is a NASA retiree an anti-government paranoid conspiracy theorist teamed up with drugged up liars who call themselves CIT? You are being used by idiots to support their lies.


There is no way to do the damage at the Pentagon without the kinetic energy impact of a 757, with the exact amount of fuel to create the jet fuel fireball. A missile can't carry that much jet fuel, and you can't plant anything in the Pentagon to mimic a kinetic energy impact. Your claims are false. Physics makes you wrong, start using science instead of anti-government bias opinions. Did the Jews do it in your version of nonsense?

 

[pgimeno]

Maybe Mr. Deets is taking as "holes" the doors labeled here as "Single door" and "Roll-up Door":

http://www.historycommons.org/events-images/a679_pentagon_overview_2050081722-17901.jpg

Here's another view:

http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/snow__crash/aedrive_debris.jpg

Or maybe he can explain what are the other holes made by the airplane.

ETA: More relevant pics here: [nfurl]stevenwarran.blogspot.com/2008/02/pinch-paisley-pentagon-worker-goes-on.html[/nfurl]

 

[Pinch]

Maybe Mr. Deets is taking as "holes" the doors labeled here as "Single door" and "Roll-up Door":

Mr. Deets, like his cohorts over at P4T, does not know what he is talking about. Credentials, it has been proven time and time again, do not equate to competence.

ETA: More relevant pics here: [nfurl]stevenwarran.blogspot.com/2008/02/pinch-paisley-pentagon-worker-goes-on.html[/nfurl]

lol...those are my photos SteveWarren was posting. I had forgotten about those. Roll-up doors and single-access doors were all over the place in that building, allowing easy access to load the standard office material and such inside from the A-E drive. Conversely, they would have provided easy access to the damaged areas, leading some who lack a well-developed sense of critical thinking skills to assume they were "three identical 9' diameter holes spaced along the C RING wall." This what makes much of this so entertaining - if they don't know something, they just make something up.

 

[R.Mackey]

Maybe Mr. Deets is taking as "holes" the doors labeled here as "Single door" and "Roll-up Door":

http://www.historycommons.org/events-images/a679_pentagon_overview_2050081722-17901.jpg

That certainly appears to be the case.

Dwain, there was one exit hole, OK? And it happens to be exactly where it belongs. However, if you're going to be so stubborn and delusional that you will make up brand new artifacts out of thin air, I'm not going to bother explaining it to you. Your grasp of reality is extremely poor -- even by Truther standards.

 

[beachnut]

...
lol...those are my photos SteveWarren was posting. I had forgotten about those. Roll-up doors and single-access doors were all over the place in that building, allowing easy access to load the standard office material and such inside from the A-E drive. Conversely, they would have provided easy access to the damaged areas, leading some who lack a well-developed sense of critical thinking skills to assume they were "three identical 9' diameter holes spaced along the C RING wall." This what makes much of this so entertaining - if they don't know something, they just make something up.

Who do these military figures take the American people for? Fools? Everybody connected with this enterprise in the government and the military are second-rate no-shows who couldn't pass muster in the new world order if their asses were on fire. The Disneyification of national intelligence came a few years too late. My cracked sixth sense was utilized in support of the Constitution of the United States of America. Men like Pinch are traitors to that cause. Sorry to be the one to tell you guys.
(by StevenWarren)

Is he making fun of 911 truth, or is he insane? Did someone in the military steal his wife?

 

[Pinch]

Is he making fun of 911 truth, or is he insane? Did someone in the military steal his wife?

The latter. No question. SteveWarran's original thesis (still is for all I know) was that Pentagon Self-Defense "howitzers" elevated from their hidden subterranean redoubts and fires *at* the Pentagon vice at something attacking it. His rationale and evidence? Round, elongated artifacts that he claimed were ejected shell casings (I *** you not). When these "shell casings" were proven to be rolls of roofing tar paper than ended scattered around because...you know....this was a "construction zone", SteveWarran went off on a tangent of standard Truther digital buffoonery.

I'm sure SteveWarran and Mr. Deets were classmates somewhere along the line...similar powers of deduction.

Insane.

 

[tfk]

DG,

Are you saying rescue workers blasted the hole to get out?

Of course our estimable Mr. Deets isn't saying that. That would be silly.

Mr, Deets is suggesting that, even tho AA77 cut a perfectly gaping 18' diameter hole in the exterior wall, a hole that the building's partial collapse significantly enlarged, the rescue team, in their typical leisurely manner, chose to not avail themselves of this convenient access. But chose instead to take their sweet time chopping their own entrance thru the blast reinforced exterior wall.

After all, whenever I go to Home Depot & I am in a REAL hurry, when I approach the entrance & the door automatically slides open wide, that's the LAST route that I take into the building.

I prefer to break out a pick axe I carry around for just this purpose & chop my own entrance thru the wall.

In order to really save time, I usually chop a second one when leaving.

Makes perfect sense...


tom

 

[Reheat]

After all, whenever I go to Home Depot & I am in a REAL hurry, when I approach the entrance & the door automatically slides open wide, that's the LAST route that I take into the building.

I prefer to break out a pick axe I carry around for just this purpose & chop my own entrance thru the wall.

In order to really save time, I usually chop a second one when leaving.

Makes perfect sense...


tom

Tom, you should stop doing that in public. The firefighters and rescue guys saw you doing that when they were at Home Depot to rent the Bobcat they used to scrape up building and aircraft debris to put in front of that hole for that deceptive photo. They knew some genius former NASA conspiracy kook would look at that hole and think they did it. However, it didn't work and he's smarter than they thought. He figured it out with the help of those eyewitness experts he likes along with other fellow kooks at pffft. If you insist on continuing that practice you should borrow one of those stealth cloaks that was used when the aircraft flew over the building.

Wait a minute, I just said......

I'm confused, so you should check with my brother, he used to work for NASA, so he's very clever at figuring out these confounded conspiracies.

 

[TjW]

I'm confused, so you should check with my brother, he used to work for NASA, so he's very clever at figuring out these confounded conspiracies.

Well, of course. Before the clever name change, they were NACA -- the National Aeronautics and Conspiracy Administration.

 

[dadeets]

Dwain, there was one exit hole, OK? And it happens to be exactly where it belongs. However, if you're going to be so stubborn and delusional that you will make up brand new artifacts out of thin air, I'm not going to bother explaining.

Rather than trying to run down the link to the Washington Post graphic, even better is to show a photo of what they very well may have used as the basis for their graphic.

The first photo is of the C-RING wall on the West side of A-E Drive. The yellow arrow shows the “exit” hole, as diagramed from the inside in the Pentagon PST Report. The hole to the left of it, on the other side of the roof bridge, is the middle hole (not depicted in the PST Report).


A second photo shows these same two holes, as well as the third hole in the corner on the left, at the tip of the triangular shadow.

Photos are among the collection at Russell Pickering’s compilation site http://home.comcast.net/~skydrifter/exp.htm . Thanks to Barbara Honegger for steering me to these photos.

 

[R.Mackey]

That's a door, Dwain. Not a hole.

May I assume your other deductions are equally insightful?

 

[dadeets]

Are you saying rescue workers blasted the hole to get out?

No, the rescue workers blasted the holes to get in. (From the A-E Drive)