My argument against materialism

punshhh said:
I stood up with my hand in the air, suddenly everyone looked round, the professor looked up at me and asked me for my question. So I said it,
"what is beyond the universe?", there was silence and gasps around me.
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I don't understand why there were gasps and silence.

This is pretty much the sort of question all eight or nine year olds ask themselves - along with "is my green the same as your green?" and "what if your whole life was just a dream?".
The professor realising there was a silence, said, "well we just don't know, its a good question though, thankyou for asking". I was treated as a fool and mocked for a few days after that.

Now I'm asking it again, because I still do not have an answer from a physicist.
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But you did get a very good answer - "we don't know".

It is fun to speculate about these things but the fact is that we don't know if there is such a thing as "beyond the universe" and if there is then we don't even have an inkling what.
 
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Robin said:
I don't understand why there were gasps and silence.

This is pretty much the sort of question all eight or nine year olds ask themselves - along with "is my green the same as your green?" and "what if your whole life was just a dream?".

But you did get a very good answer - "we don't know".

It is fun to speculate about these things but the fact is that we don't know if there is such a thing as "beyond the universe" and if there is then we don't even have an inkling what.
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I am happy to exchange 'paradox', to 'seemingly impossible', I was using it in one of its looser definitions (or arguably wrongly).

Is what you say above, 'the materialist position'?
 
Belz... said:
:hb:
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Please offer another description of the banana problem, if you would prefer not to use paradox.

I would have been happy with 'problem' rather than paradox, I cant see what all the fuss is about.
 
punshhh said:
I am happy to exchange 'paradox', to 'seemingly impossible', I was using it in one of its looser definitions (or arguably wrongly).

Is what you say above, 'the materialist position'?
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It is the position of anybody who doesn't pretend to know these things.
 
punshhh said:
I constructed the paradox/problem, in order to discuss how materialism accounts for such problems.
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But what exactly is the problem?

Taking your banana example I assume that essentially you are saying "Something exists, please explain". Is that a reasonable statement of the problem you are stating?

If not please try to state the problem clearly and concisely, because none of us can see a paradox or a problem.
 
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If this is the old "why is there something instead of nothing?" chestnut then the answer is simple:

Either a) no reason at all, there just is, or ; b) it is impossible for there to be nothing
 
Robin said:
But what exactly is the problem?

Taking your banana example I assume that essentially you are saying "Something exists, please explain". Is that a reasonable statement of the problem you are stating?
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essentially yes but more specifically;

1; something finite exists, how can this be?

2; Must "something" infinite also exist or not?

3; If the answer to '2' is not how do you account for the question 'what is beyond the finite universe?

Lets give that a whorl.
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punshhh said:
Perhaps you will offer a solution to the banana paradox?
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I'm sorry, my previous post was way of suggesting that what you were using as logic was not rational, and that any apparent paradox regarding bananas was a misapprehension on this account.

I really need to be more direct - my bad.

If you could restate your banana paradox briefly and clearly, perhaps I can be more specific about where the error lies.
 
punshhh said:
1; something finite exists, how can this be?

2; Must "something" infinite also exist or not?

3; If the answer to '2' is not how do you account for the question 'what is beyond the finite universe?
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Why does there have to be something beyond it?
 
punshhh said:
I would have been happy with 'problem' rather than paradox, I cant see what all the fuss is about.
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'Paradox' has a specific meaning, and it isn't 'problem'. You're not Humpty Dumpty, so please use words that say what you mean if you want to be taken seriously (or you just want your posts to make sense).
 
punshhh said:
1; something finite exists, how can this be?
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Finite in what sense?

2; Must "something" infinite also exist or not?
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Such as? time? space? the number of reals? our patience?

3; If the answer to '2' is not how do you account for the question 'what is beyond the finite universe?
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If the answer to '2' is not what?
The question is easily accounted for - it was made up and asked up by you on this forum. If you want an answer to the question, assuming the universe is finite, then my answer would be 'we don't know', but what do you mean by 'universe'? Our observable universe could be a brane in a higher dimensional space, part of a multiverse or single, self-contained and closed, with nothing outside because there is no outside.
 
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