Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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RoseMontague said:
The thing I find silly about Rinaldi is not this opinion but the opinion that Rudy's footprint can be excluded from the bathmat. I don't give this expert any credibility.
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Did you mean to write "cannot be excluded" (or perhaps you meant to write "Vinci" instead of "Rinaldi" :))?
 
Antony said:
Others have pointed out Amanda's other expressions of her loss of her dear and admired friend, as well as her fears about the unknown (at that time) murderer. You simply do not make your point by focussing out-of-context on something that Amanda typed which doesn't happen to conform to your concept of suitable grieving.
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It might make you feel better believing that these two women were "dear and admired" friends but there is no evidence of this at all.

I agree that people grieve differently. Amanda, however, didn't grieve at all.

As for helping the police with the investigation, you're being ridiculous. She and Raffaele made themselves available to the police for over 40 hours over the next 3 days, and their goodwill was utterly betrayed. Had they not done so, the police would very likely have selected a different target for their suspicions, and no doubt we would be seeing the same bile being vented against whoever they had chosen as their scapegoat.
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So you're saying that if RS and AK hadn't cooperated with the police then the police would have just picked some random person off the street and accused them?
 
revisiting old ground

Alt+F4 said:
I agree that people grieve differently. Amanda, however, didn't grieve at all.
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Alt+F4,

According to witnesses, Amanda cried on several occasions. I have documented this previously, and I am confident that the advanced search function would be helpful in finding those messages. On the other hand, you have not put forth any evidence that would indicate that Amanda did not grieve at all. The most that can be said is that she did not grieve 24/7, nor could she. She needed to buy underwear, find a place to live, go to classes, and so forth.
 
halides1 said:
Alt+F4,

According to witnesses, Amanda cried on several occasions. I have documented this previously, and I am confident that the advanced search function would be helpful in finding those messages. On the other hand, you have not put forth any evidence that would indicate that Amanda did not grieve at all. The most that can be said is that she did not grieve 24/7, nor could she. She needed to buy underwear, find a place to live, go to classes, and so forth.
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Ah, but confirmation bias can be a curious phenomenon!

Also, let's not forget that Amanda and Meredith went together to the classical concert where Knox met Sollecito, and that was just six days before the murder. That doesn't sound like something that two people who didn't get along at all would choose to do together, does it?

Interestingly, Meredith chose to leave the concert half way through. I wonder what someone with confirmation bias would have made of things if it had been Knox who had chosen to leave....?
 
halides1 said:
According to witnesses, Amanda cried on several occasions. I have documented this previously, and I am confident that the advanced search function would be helpful in finding those messages. On the other hand, you have not put forth any evidence that would indicate that Amanda did not grieve at all. The most that can be said is that she did not grieve 24/7, nor could she. She needed to buy underwear, find a place to live, go to classes, and so forth.
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Of course she was crying. She didn't have access to her passport, therefore she couldn't flee. Her number one priority was getting hold of her documents.
 
christianahannah said:
Did you mean to write "cannot be excluded" (or perhaps you meant to write "Vinci" instead of "Rinaldi" :))?
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I believe Rose's paraphrase was correct. Massei describes Rinaldi's opinion about the bathmat print using words
non-compatibility of print ‚A‛ with Rudy Hermann Guede’s right foot
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Anyone can asses what that opinion is worth, just by looking at the bathmat photo and comparing it with Rudy's footprint.
The way Rinaldi measured the width of the toe to make it compatible with Raffaele is particularly ridiculous. IMO this, along with the massive blunders of ascribing Rudy's shoe print to Raffaele and incorrectly measuring the luminol print puts prosecution expert in rather bad light.
 
LondonJohn said:
Ah, but confirmation bias can be a curious phenomenon!

Also, let's not forget that Amanda and Meredith went together to the classical concert where Knox met Sollecito, and that was just six days before the murder. That doesn't sound like something that two people who didn't get along at all would choose to do together, does it?

Interestingly, Meredith chose to leave the concert half way through. I wonder what someone with confirmation bias would have made of things if it had been Knox who had chosen to leave....?
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Since she left half way through she either didn't like the music or the company.
 
Katody Matrass said:
I believe Rose's paraphrase was correct. Massei describes Rinaldi's opinion about the bathmat print using words

Anyone can asses what that opinion is worth, just by looking at the bathmat photo and comparing it with Rudy's footprint.
The way Rinaldi measured the width of the toe to make it compatible with Raffaele is particularly ridiculous. IMO this, along with the massive blunders of ascribing Rudy's shoe print to Raffaele and incorrectly measuring the luminol print puts prosecution expert in rather bad light.
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To say the least! I'd be very surprised if the appeal court doesn't rule that the bath mat footprint is unable to be matched with any level of certainty to either Sollecito or Guede (and that, by extension, Rinaldi's "science" is worthless pseudoscience).
 
LondonJohn said:
Confirmation bias.
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You can say that all you want to but it doesn't change the fact that Amanda was UNABLE to flee, not that nonsense that she was determined to help the police solve this murder! How would she possibly have time to help that police when she had to shop for underwear and do all that homework? You don't get to be a top honor student like Amanda without doing lots of homework.
 
Alt+F4 said:
Since she left half way through she either didn't like the music or the company.
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She knew in advance what type of music was being played, and presumably having lived with Knox for some six weeks, she knew the character of the person she was going with. See, I'd count walking out of a concert half way through, leaving your companion there alone, to be rude and unsociable. Maybe it's just me, though. Now, if it had been KNOX who had done the walking out, I suspect the action would have been given a whole new interpretation.......
 
Alt+F4 said:
You can say that all you want to but it doesn't change the fact that Amanda was UNABLE to flee, not that nonsense that she was determined to help the police solve this murder! How would she possibly have time to help that police when she had to shop for underwear and do all that homework? You don't get to be a top honor student like Amanda without doing lots of homework.
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Is this actually a serious response? You were asserting that "of course Knox was crying" because she couldn't get her passport and therefore couldn't flee. This was quite clearly what I was referring to as an example (yet another) of confirmation bias. Do you really not see how this is a very different issue than whether or not Knox could leave Italy (even if she had wanted to)?
 
Alt+F4 said:
Of course she was crying. She didn't have access to her passport, therefore she couldn't flee. Her number one priority was getting hold of her documents.
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I think you're reading things from that email that in reality are not there.

She had her passport with her all the time. Did you know this? She wrote that her house mates were arranging to retrieve important papers, not that her passport was inaccessible in the closed crime scene.
 
Katody Matrass said:
I think you're reading things from that email that in reality are not there.

She had her passport with her all the time. Did you know this? She wrote that her house mates were arranging to retrieve important papers, not that her passport was inaccessible in the closed crime scene.
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Ah thanks for that clarification. I'd had the feeling that Knox had her passport with her, but I couldn't be bothered to search and check. It's funny how people draw unsupported inferences to suit their own bias sometimes, isn't it?
 
Katody Matrass said:
I think you're reading things from that email that in reality are not there.

She had her passport with her all the time. Did you know this? She wrote that her house mates were arranging to retrieve important papers, not that her passport was inaccessible in the closed crime scene.
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I know her passport was confiscated by the authorities, could you provide a link that she had it with her when she, and everyone else, were quickly ordered out of the house the morning after the murder. Thanks.

I wonder why the American embassy didn't make a stink that a U.S. passport was taken from a U.S. citizen.
 
Alt+F4 said:
I know her passport was confiscated by the authorities, could you provide a link that she had it with her when she, and everyone else, were quickly ordered out of the house the morning after the murder. Thanks.

I wonder why the American embassy didn't make a stink that a U.S. passport was taken from a U.S. citizen.
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I don't believe that the Italian authorities ever confiscated Knox's passport. Why do you think (ETA: know) they did, and where's your evidence? I believe the police/prosecutor asked her not to leave Italy while the investigation was ongoing, but that they most certainly had no authority to confiscate her passport before she was arrested on 6th November. And after that time, she's been in continuous custody.

This article suggests that Knox's family surrendered her passport to the authorities as part of a plea for house arrest within Italy:

Knox’s defence team are considering an application for her to be freed on “home release”, a common practice in Italy, to await the appeal case which is due to be heard in late October. Her family and lawyers were able to demonstrate they had taken a residence in Perugia and had surrendered Knox’s passport to the Italian authorities.
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http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/187586/Amanda-Knox-I-didn-t-kill-Meredith-Kercher/

This seems to me to be far more likely to have been how and why Knox's passport ended up in the hands of the Italian authorities. Why do you think (ETA: know) different?
 
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