WikiLeaks Guantanamo Detainee Omar Khadr

gumboot said:
They were Pashtun villagers, weren't they?
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No, they were Taliban fighters. They don't get to be villagers one minute and combatants the next.

And Khadr wasn't even Pashtun, he was a Canadian whose family was from Egypt.
 
The Fool said:
ok...question too hard yet again.....not going to waste further time attempting to get you to answer.
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I told you, I am heartbroken by his treatment... I can't believe they called him "Buckshot"!

I haven't been this sad since Dahmer was killed in prison. :(
 
You know, there's a lot more to the Omar Khadr story than the OP alludes to. Google up "Ahmed Khadr" "Jean Chretien" and "1996" - and you'll find that the then PM of Canada pretty much vouched for an Al Queda terrorist to help get him out of a Pakistani jail. Obviously, Jean didn't know at the time that Papa Ahmed was an Al Queda member at the time, but geez, he really should have looked into it further instead of just playing to the audience at the time. It's a very ugly story in retrospect, but it should come as no surprise that Ahmed's kids ended up following his terrorist ways and views. On the up side, though, not all of his kids bought into the crap that he was trying to feed them. Abdurahman, for instance, denounced Daddy's call to terrorist action, after all. It's unfortunate, indeed, that Omar, Mama Khadr, and other siblings didn't do the same.
 
WildCat said:
No, they were Taliban fighters.
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I think you'll find that quite a few Taliban are not only Pashtun, but live in villages.


WildCat said:
They don't get to be villagers one minute and combatants the next.
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They can be both at the same time. All combatants have an ethnicity and live in some sort of community.

The account at wikipedia indicates their weapons were clearly visible, and the US military's posture towards the village was quite clearly hostile. Legitimate engagement, as far as I can see.


WildCat said:
And Khadr wasn't even Pashtun, he was a Canadian whose family was from Egypt.
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No but he was living with Pashtun villagers. If you're going to make some sort of individual exclusion argument for him, I can as easily make the same counter argument and ask for evidence that Khadr personally told anyone he was a Pashtun villager.
 
LashL said:
You know, there's a lot more to the Omar Khadr story than the OP alludes to. Google up "Ahmed Khadr" "Jean Chretien" and "1996" - and you'll find that the then PM of Canada pretty much vouched for an Al Queda terrorist to help get him out of a Pakistani jail. Obviously, Jean didn't know at the time that Papa Ahmed was an Al Queda member at the time, but geez, he really should have looked into it further instead of just playing to the audience at the time. It's a very ugly story in retrospect, but it should come as no surprise that Ahmed's kids ended up following his terrorist ways and views. On the up side, though, not all of his kids bought into the crap that he was trying to feed them. Abdurahman, for instance, denounced Daddy's call to terrorist action, after all. It's unfortunate, indeed, that Omar, Mama Khadr, and other siblings didn't do the same.
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What's the "Papa", "Mama", "Daddy" crap in aid of, LashL?

Are you in favor of torturing children?
 
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gumboot said:
I think you'll find that quite a few Taliban are not only Pashtun, but live in villages.




They can be both at the same time. All combatants have an ethnicity and live in some sort of community.
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No, you can't simultaneously be a civilian and a combatant. And the court agreed.

gumboot said:
The account at wikipedia indicates their weapons were clearly visible, and the US military's posture towards the village was quite clearly hostile. Legitimate engagement, as far as I can see.
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It's also clear that when they went to the hopuse looking for Taliban they were told therew were no Taliban there, just innocent Pashtun villagers. Once again, you don't get to be an innocent civilian one minute then a combatant the next.

gumboot said:
No but he was living with Pashtun villagers. If you're going to make some sort of individual exclusion argument for him, I can as easily make the same counter argument and ask for evidence that Khadr personally told anyone he was a Pashtun villager.
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Hey, in that case all the US troops in Afghanistan are also Pashtun villagers. It's not like they go home to South Carolina every night, and they're every bit as Pashtun as Khadr is.
 
JihadJane said:
What's the "Papa", "Mama", "Daddy" crap in aid of, LashL?

Are you in favor of torturing children?
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JihadAhmed made a Taliban fighter out of his son JihadOmar. Perhaps JihadOmar should have stuck to internet jihad, like you do JihadJane.
 
gumboot said:
Putting aside the fact that he's a child and was abused as a detainee, I don't understand how a charge of "murder in violation of the law of war" could possibly stand up to scrutiny.

He threw a grenade at a legitimate military target - a US Army soldier - and killed said soldier.

That's not murder. It's war. Again, ignoring for the moment that he's a minor, as a person living in Afghanistan at the time of the US invasion of Afghanistan, he has the right, under Article 2 (Annex to the Convention) of the Hague Convention for the Laws of War on Land (1907), to take up arms to fight the Americans.
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So if the American soliders had killed him, rather than capturing him, that would have been a legitimate killing?
 
gumboot said:
He threw a grenade at a legitimate military target - a US Army soldier - and killed said soldier.
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Allegedly.

Alt+F4 said:
So if the American soliders had killed him, rather than capturing him, that would have been a legitimate killing?
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It's debatable whether American soldiers have any legal right to be rampaging around Afghanistan at all.

Are you happy with Omar Khadr's subsequent treatment?
 
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JihadJane said:
Are you happy with Omar Khadr's subsequent treatment?
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Considering the fact that they didn't kill him on the spot I'd say his subsequent treatment hasn't been that bad. I'd bet he would agree with me.
 
JihadJane said:
It's debatable whether American soldiers have any legal right to be rampaging around Afghanistan at all.
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Not really, but the JihadKhadr family certainly had no right to go to Afghanistan and join al Qaida and the Taliban in their killing and torture agenda.
 
Alt+F4 said:
Considering the fact that they didn't kill him on the spot I'd say his subsequent treatment hasn't been that bad. I'd bet he would agree with me.
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"Killing him on the spot" (presuming everything else about the engagement occurred as is) would have been murder of a combatant rendered Hors de Combat and is a warcrime.

Murder of a combatant is granted a worse warcrime than torturing a POW, but they're both totally illegal and well down the "very very bad" scale.
 
JihadJane said:
It's debatable whether American soldiers have any legal right to be rampaging around Afghanistan at all.
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No it's not. UNSCR 1386 gave them a mandate to operate in Afghanistan. The resolution was enacted under Chapter VII of the UN Charter which makes it legally binding, and therefore International Law.

In fact strictly speaking they had a legal duty to be rampaging around Afghanistan, as failing to perform their duties under UNSCR 1386 would have constituted a violation of International Law.
 
WildCat said:
No, you can't simultaneously be a civilian and a combatant. And the court agreed.
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Did they say they were Pashtun villagers, or civilians?


WildCat said:
It's also clear that when they went to the hopuse looking for Taliban they were told therew were no Taliban there, just innocent Pashtun villagers. Once again, you don't get to be an innocent civilian one minute then a combatant the next.
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Hang on, so now they were specifically saying they weren't Taliban?

What did they actually say? Do you know?


WildCat said:
Hey, in that case all the US troops in Afghanistan are also Pashtun villagers. It's not like they go home to South Carolina every night, and they're every bit as Pashtun as Khadr is.
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I wasn't aware that US troops in Afghanistan routinely reside in Pashtun villages. In fact I'm pretty sure the only ones who might be doing that are Special Forces or Green Berets or CIA or something, and if they are, they're committing a warcrime.
 
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