OOS Collapse Propagation Model

[ozeco41]

Here are a list of WTC1 collapse progression features. Now that the possibility of a natural OOS process has been generally accepted, the next question to ask is whether all observabloes are within range of a natural collapse.....
.....The simple question is whether these observables are consistent with the possibility of a natural ROOSD process.

You are making life hard for yourself again Major_Tom - and again it is by coming from the detail end.

Much easier this way round:-

Pancaking collapse of the open office floor spaces is the generally accepted explanation whether or not we attach your label of "ROOSD".

And it is a natural process because no one has formulated and published a credible "unnatural process".

So it is not a "simple question is whether these observables are consistent with the possibility of a natural ROOSD process?" They are consistent.

...and the real question then becomes the complicated issue of explaining why they are consistent.

...for those who are interested in such detail.

UNLESS someone proposes an "unnatural process" and no-one has so far. Not losing track of all the evidence which proves there was no need for an "unnatural process".

So the only narrow hole in the logic to squeeze through is if someone did some "CD"/"Demolition"/"MIHOP" or other unnatural process even though it was totally unnecessary.

Unless you are merely interested in the details of what caused a puff of dust out of window "X"....

 

[sheeplesnshills]

The simple question is whether these observables are consistent with the possibility of a natural ROOSD process.

Nothing natural about the collapse......it was the very unnatural impact of a 767 airliner that made the collapse inevitable.

 

[ozeco41]

Nothing natural about the collapse......it was the very unnatural impact of a 767 airliner...

Sure - but the shorthand is convenient.

.... that made the collapse inevitable.

Don't forget a bit of a fire...
...unfought.

but nothing more than that - natural or un-natural.

 

[Major_Tom]

In this frame there is the beginning of visible over-pressurization on the 77th floor.

The moment of earliest over-pressurization of the 77th floor is shown in this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acTcwA_YHuA

The 77th floor is the lower escalator floor.


Is this consistent with a ROOSD process?. I cannot see how.

In the image above, the line of fire visible near the top of the screen is floor 92. The 77th fl ejections first becomes visible during the collapse initiation 20 floors above.

 

[Major_Tom]

An example from WTC2.

2 ejections emerge at the same time, though separated by about 15 stories.

The lower ejection first emerges when the collapse front is about 20 stories above.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-CYVnYbcjA

It is rather absurd to think that the whole OOS space was over-pressurized and the pressure escaped only through a single window.

For example, it is probably no coincidence that the ejection below lines up with a hallway.

 

[Reactor drone]

ROOSD is the only known propagation mechanism which agrees with all observables.

Is this a true statement or a false statement? Why do you think so?

Is this consistent with a ROOSD process?. I cannot see how.

On page one you presented your ROOSD pancake theory saying that it was the only mechanism which agrees with all observables and now you're saying that your ROOSD theory doesn't agree with an observation.

Have you changed your mind or did you never think your theory was a perfect explanation for all of the observed events?

 

[beachnut]

An example from WTC2.

2 ejections emerge at the same time, though separated by about 15 stories.

The lower ejection first emerges when the collapse front is about 20 stories above.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-CYVnYbcjA

It is rather absurd to think that the whole OOS space was over-pressurized and the pressure escaped only through a single window.

For example, it is probably no coincidence that the ejection below lines up with a hallway.

Posting proof of a gravity collapse is not going to make 911 truth happy. Why would an over pressure, due to gravity collapse, not knock out a window? Does thermite knock out windows, a single one or more? Explosives would knock out how many windows? Why are the ejections exactly what an overpressure due to collapse looks like? Looks like models are correct, down to the physics of breaking windows and dynamics of dust ejected. Models, they are used by real engineers, and fake engineers attack them in favor of their hidden agendas and failed claims. Go ahead, show your math, and explain your conclusion on the ejected dust. Can you use some physics to answer you own non-questions? Real engineers use math and physics to back up their claims, have you made any claims, or is this thread nonsense for you to back in some delusion on demolition? Where is the math and physics, some differential equations, when do form a conclusion? What is your point, is there a summary coming soon?

 

[ozeco41]

...It is rather absurd to think that the whole OOS space was over-pressurized and the pressure escaped only through a single window.

For example, it is probably no coincidence that the ejection below lines up with a hallway.

[qimg]http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/images/photoalbum/13/westjet.jpeg[/qimg]

What is the problem?

There is a massive plug of some sort - 'top block' plus accumulating debris - falling through the floors some ten or more floors above this level where the ejection occurs. It will be pushing pressurised air ahead of it down any available plenum.

So the OOS floor space at the level of the ejection is effectively sealed off from the floors above and below by the still intact floors. AND The largest available plenum for pressurised air to move vertically is in the core.

But the vertical "tubes" - lifts/elevators and stairways had mostly closed doors at the start of this event. What price several doors open on one floor giving clear egress for pressurised air?

So much would do me for the start of a preliminary hypothesis.

Remember that the principle features of ROOSD are generally accepted, with or without your recently developed "ROOSD" label attached.

So the ejection is consistent with ROOSD - if it looks inconsistent it is because we still do not have an explanation of this detail. And that explanation is what we need to satisfy those who are interested in details.

My bid is on the table.

 

[Major_Tom]

There is a massive plug of some sort - 'top block' plus accumulating debris - falling through the floors some ten or more floors above this level where the ejection occurs. It will be pushing pressurised air ahead of it down any available plenum.

So the OOS floor space at the level of the ejection is effectively sealed off from the floors above and below by the still intact floors. AND The largest available plenum for pressurised air to move vertically is in the core.

But the vertical "tubes" - lifts/elevators and stairways had mostly closed doors at the start of this event. What price several doors open on one floor giving clear egress for pressurised air?

So much would do me for the start of a preliminary hypothesis.

That is a nice general summary. Except, the only available vertical tobe pathways will be in the core..

OOS spaces are like cells. In general, there are no pathways through the OOS flooring to reach the next level down. Exceptions exist, like the lower and upper elevator floors, for example.

This means the only vertical passageways must be through the core. They are elevator shafts, stairways and HVAC plenums. Using the bluepronts and other information, we can know where these tubes are located.

The problem is that the 77th floor ejection began during the collapse initiation 20 floors above. The building is barely moving 20 floors above when the first over-pressurization is seen.

Also, HVAC can be ruled out because fl 77 is the lower escalator floor and the 75th MER supplies air up to fl 91 only.

This leaves elevator shafts. This means Mr Ejection would have to take the elevator shaft down, get out, turn west and shoot down the hallway with such force that he breaks the windows which line up with the hallway 37 ft away. All this while the building is beginning to move downward 20 floors higher.

 

[Major_Tom]

The lower pair of ejections are from the 77th floor on the west and the 75th fl on the north. This is taken from the north:

The 77th floor ejection first became detectable using motion detection by subtraction during collapse initiation, so it emerges before you notice it with your eyes.

The 75th floor ejection comes out aligned with a hallway. Notice we see nothing emerge out of the known air vent locations around the 75th and 76th fls, instead we see an ejection emerge from a place with no air vents and which lines up with the center hallway.

We know where the air intakes and exhaust openings are located. Nothing emerges from them. Mr 75th fl ejection chose to take an elevator shaft also, turned north and shoot out of a window lining up with the hallway to the central core.

 

[ozeco41]

That is a nice general summary. Except, the only available vertical tobe pathways will be in the core..

Why "except"? I said it would be the core.

...OOS spaces are like cells. In general, there are no pathways through the OOS flooring to reach the next level down. Exceptions exist, like the lower and upper elevator floors, for example.

This means the only vertical passageways must be through the core. They are elevator shafts, stairways and HVAC plenums. Using the bluepronts and other information, we can know where these tubes are located...

...again that is what I said.

...The problem is that the 77th floor ejection began during the collapse initiation 20 floors above. The building is barely moving 20 floors above when the first over-pressurization is seen...

...and????

...This leaves elevator shafts. This means Mr Ejection would have to take the elevator shaft down, get out, turn west and shoot down the hallway with such force that he breaks the windows which line up with the hallway 37 ft away. All this while the building is beginning to move downward 20 floors higher.

Yes. and the problem with that scenario is????

 

[BasqueArch]

.....
An H-beam provides a natural hiding place for a small device sized to snap and displace bolted plates. Thye have protective cavities on two opposite sides. By placing a very limited number of these devices above and below the impact zone within the protection of the H-beam cavity itself, it is not hard to see that nuclear weapons or space beams are not necessary to initiate ROOSD conditions.
......

Fire-resistant, remote-controlled bolt-cutting devices hidden in the H beams? Finally, something new.

Exploding Nuts
Cause Of Truthers' Collapse​

 

[carlitos]

Unless you are merely interested in the details of what caused a puff of dust out of window "X"....

Scanning the posts since you asked this, I think you got your answer. Counting the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin. As beachnut puts it, no goal.

 

[ozeco41]

Scanning the posts since you asked this, I think you got your answer. Counting the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin. As beachnut puts it, no goal.

Thanks - I'm well aware of the "goal-less process". I challenged Major_Tom about it in one of my first posts directed towards him. (Same goes for his two asociates)

I appreciate the factual on topic comments which beachnut makes - specifically those directed at the lack of objective. I don't see the need to keep repeating the issue in every post but several of my recent posts have alluded to it and the difficulties it causes.

However goal-less as it may be, and MT et al will assure us there is a goal, MT will pursue his path and I will be interested in the progress on the real technical stuff. And my "ignore the noise filter" is set to "high"

 

[ozeco41]

... This leaves elevator shafts. This means Mr Ejection would have to take the elevator shaft down, get out, turn west and shoot down the hallway with such force that he breaks the windows which line up with the hallway 37 ft away. All this while the building is beginning to move downward 20 floors higher.

...and the lowest level of the upper bank of elevators is at 77?? 78??

...were the elevator shafts closed between the upper and mid level banks - there must have been at least the mid bank winding gear obstructing downwards air flow.

Or is that suggestion too obvious??

 

[ozeco41]

...and the lowest level of the upper bank of elevators is at 77?? 78??

...were the elevator shafts closed between the upper and mid level banks - there must have been at least the mid bank winding gear obstructing downwards air flow.

Or is that suggestion too obvious??

Are more hints needed?

What happened to the high level local elevator cars when the top block started to fall?

 

[Major_Tom]

I include the 77th floor ejection with the initiation features because it happens just as the tower starts to move.

There is a source of over=pressurization on the 77th floor. That is the reality.

More falling elevators?

 

[ozeco41]

...I include the 77th floor ejection with the initiation features because it happens just as the tower starts to move.

There is a source of over=pressurization on the 77th floor. That is the reality.

Didn't we pass that point a few posts back?

...More falling elevators?

What do you mean by "more"?

There is no way to "prove" it either way but at floor 77/78 - which is ~the base of the top set local elevators - it certainly puts dropped elevator cars on the list of possibles.

 

[Major_Tom]

WTC2, floor 41

Lower mechanical floor. It lines up with the hallway into the core.

This is the 75th fl lower mechanical room:

Notice how at the locations of known air vents there is nothing being ejected at all.The row of ejections on the north face do not line up with an air vent.

Mr ejection prefers the lower mechanical rooms across from the hallway in WTC1 and WTC2.

 

[Major_Tom]

Mr ejection's preferred exit point, WTC1 lower mechanical floor, lining up with the hallway.

Notice how nothing seems to come out the locations with known air vents. Nothing. This is because the talk about jet over-pressures shooting down air vents is mostly bogus. Anyone can see how the known air vents behave as the OOS collapse front approaches.

Mr ejection prefers the hallway on these floors.

How random are these jet ejections, anyway?