The 100% Impossible 9/11 Inside Job

[achimspok]

You do realize that this wall was specifically designed to resist an impact, right? IIRC, it was for a nuclear power plant.

Not to mention that the wall is like 3' or so thick? Made of steel and concrete DESIGNED to resist an impact.

WTC's were not designed to do that.

Yes I do. So the chance for bouncing back is a little bigger than in the case of WTC. Do you get it?

 

[triforcharity]

Why do you keep saying "bounce"?

 

[leftysergeant]

You need evidence? Explain a single possibility for the passport to reach Vesey St.!

The passport was probably on the person of the hijacker in the cockpit of the aircraft. Parts of the cockpit would have continued on through the building. A massive explosion occurred about the time that it exited. Unlike solid objects such as nut and bolt, a passport woud flutter quite a bit. It is light and would not fall to the ground as quickly as glass, aluminum or steel. No telling where it would have wound up in the vortices formed by the wind blowing around the towers and the flames rising into the sky. Looki at the freaking videos some time. Paper is fluttering every which way.

How long do you need to identify white correction fluid on a white paper?

You assume that every immigration worker is going to llok at a document in minute detail. I have to compare it to a kid altering and old-style driver's license to buy booze. I know of several who succeded in buying beer with an altered ID until they tried to get by me at the 7-11 I worked at back in 1973. The cops even thought that one that I turned over to them was valid until they called in the name and address. This is not earth-sjhaking forensic science, okay?

What do you think he is hiding?

His movement prior to entering the USA. DUH!

 

[Regnad Kcin]

No evidence. Just incredulity and circular reasoning.


No evidence. How that must burn in a truther's craw.

 

[leftysergeant]

Yes I do. So the chance for bouncing back is a little bigger than in the case of WTC. Do you get it?

There is a slightly greater chance that a 30-06 black tip will bounce off of a Buick than that a .50 BMG will bounce off.

So what is your point?

 

[tsig]

Why do you keep saying "bounce"?

Apparently he doesn't know where the passport was found.

 

[achimspok]

Why do you keep saying "bounce"?

Bounce means AA11 came in from north and crashed into the north face of the north tower WTC1. The wind also came from north. Vesey St is north of the north tower. That passport didn't go through the tower.

 

[achimspok]

The passport was probably on the person of the hijacker in the cockpit of the aircraft. Parts of the cockpit would have continued on through the building. A massive explosion occurred about the time that it exited. Unlike solid objects such as nut and bolt, a passport woud flutter quite a bit. It is light and would not fall to the ground as quickly as glass, aluminum or steel. No telling where it would have wound up in the vortices formed by the wind blowing around the towers and the flames rising into the sky. Looki at the freaking videos some time. Paper is fluttering every which way.

You assume that every immigration worker is going to llok at a document in minute detail. I have to compare it to a kid altering and old-style driver's license to buy booze. I know of several who succeded in buying beer with an altered ID until they tried to get by me at the 7-11 I worked at back in 1973. The cops even thought that one that I turned over to them was valid until they called in the name and address. This is not earth-sjhaking forensic science, okay?

His movement prior to entering the USA. DUH!

Parts of the cockpit would have continued on through the building but there was no hole in the building. That cockpit became some kind of a shot gun load of thousands of high speed pieces BUT these pieces were not fast enough to escape the fire along the trajectory.
You can see it best in the videos of UA175. Even the huge engine that went through the office space did not escape the fire.

Same for AA11

Sorry. It looks like ImageShack do not link the Wolfgang Staehle photographs but you can find it here:
http://www.911conspiracy.tv/Naudet_plane_crash_slideshow_v2.html

That's why the debris looks this way:

So even if that passport had a chance to went through the building, it had no chance to land at Vesey St. It had a infinit small chance to escape the fire and it had no chance to escape without scratches. It's insane.
In the same way one could state that you can shoot at a passport without leaving any trace. And that passport made it against the wind back to the other side of the building. NO WAY!

You talk about all the fluttering paper? Printer paper and documents from the offices? Well, the fuel explosion caused a lot of pressure abel to blow the windows out. Sure, there was a lot of paper but certainly not from the cockpit with a high speed crushed airplane coming behind it followed by 10000gal of vaporized fuel exploding and overcoming every piece of metal.

"You assume that every immigration worker..." No. I assume that it makes no sense to use correction fluid for any kind of fraud. I assume that possibly one immigration worker or visa guy or who ever is enough to notice it if looking at it BUT he probably wouldn't notice that stamp among stamps without correction fluid. That "fraud" is like putting a huge exclamation mark behind that stamp. Once noticed it is nevertheless NO PROBLEM to still read what the stamp is saying.
I furthermore assume that these hijackers allegedly had additional passports for Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan if there ever went there. At least the FBI is stating that the absence of these stamps is a clear sign of a fraud as well. Yet, the FBI is stateing that there are some/many fraudulent stamps they don't show to the public for whatever reason. Tell me one plausible reason to use an original passport - a clean one - or later with saveral stamps from Malaysia, Turky... - and put a lot of fraudulet stamps in it. Does it help anything. Something like "Hey, looks like a student who travels all the time. He's OK."
If there is no entry stamp for Pakistan then they even do not need a fraudulent exit, right? So what for?
The only plausible explanation I can imagine is a fraudulent pass given by some unknown man in buisness suit to the authorities. THEY wanted some obvious frauds in it. No one else would have any profit of correction fluid and additional fraudulent stamps. It's nonsense.
Any hijacker or terrorist dont want to be noticed at any cost. They don't need to buy beer by amateurish painting WHITE over a stamp. And it wasn't a fraudulent paper so that some stamps would look like a little more original.

...and in the end it's not the only passport story in such a nonsensical way.

 

[tsig]

Parts of the cockpit would have continued on through the building but there was no hole in the building. That cockpit became some kind of a shot gun load of thousands of high speed pieces BUT these pieces were not fast enough to escape the fire along the trajectory.
You can see it best in the videos of UA175. Even the huge engine that went through the office space did not escape the fire.
[qimg]http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/3024/pic00310.png[/qimg][qimg]http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/6831/pic00311.png[/qimg][qimg]http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/4985/pic00312.png[/qimg]

Same for AA11
[qimg]http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/28/pic00318.png[/qimg]
Sorry. It looks like ImageShack do not link the Wolfgang Staehle photographs but you can find it here:
http://www.911conspiracy.tv/Naudet_plane_crash_slideshow_v2.html

That's why the debris looks this way:
[qimg]http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/6407/wtcdebrisseatcushionaa1.jpg[/qimg]

So even if that passport had a chance to went through the building, it had no chance to land at Vesey St. It had a infinit small chance to escape the fire and it had no chance to escape without scratches. It's insane.
In the same way one could state that you can shoot at a passport without leaving any trace. And that passport made it against the wind back to the other side of the building. NO WAY!

You talk about all the fluttering paper? Printer paper and documents from the offices? Well, the fuel explosion caused a lot of pressure abel to blow the windows out. Sure, there was a lot of paper but certainly not from the cockpit with a high speed crushed airplane coming behind it followed by 10000gal of vaporized fuel exploding and overcoming every piece of metal.

"You assume that every immigration worker..." No. I assume that it makes no sense to use correction fluid for any kind of fraud. I assume that possibly one immigration worker or visa guy or who ever is enough to notice it if looking at it BUT he probably wouldn't notice that stamp among stamps without correction fluid. That "fraud" is like putting a huge exclamation mark behind that stamp. Once noticed it is nevertheless NO PROBLEM to still read what the stamp is saying.
I furthermore assume that these hijackers allegedly had additional passports for Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan if there ever went there. At least the FBI is stating that the absence of these stamps is a clear sign of a fraud as well. Yet, the FBI is stateing that there are some/many fraudulent stamps they don't show to the public for whatever reason. Tell me one plausible reason to use an original passport - a clean one - or later with saveral stamps from Malaysia, Turky... - and put a lot of fraudulet stamps in it. Does it help anything. Something like "Hey, looks like a student who travels all the time. He's OK."
If there is no entry stamp for Pakistan then they even do not need a fraudulent exit, right? So what for?
The only plausible explanation I can imagine is a fraudulent pass given by some unknown man in buisness suit to the authorities. THEY wanted some obvious frauds in it. No one else would have any profit of correction fluid and additional fraudulent stamps. It's nonsense.
Any hijacker or terrorist dont want to be noticed at any cost. They don't need to buy beer by amateurish painting WHITE over a stamp.

...and in the end it's not the only passport story in such a nonsensical way.

Why would the plotters allow the passport to be found if it's such a big red flag?

 

[LightningTeg]

Why would the plotters allow the passport to be found if it's such a big red flag?

Debunking themselves, one theory at a time.

 

[jiggeryqua]

Why would the plotters allow the passport to be found if it's such a big red flag?

I used to play Scrabble, weekly, with an erudite, intelligent ex-journalist schizophrenic. Mostly, he was engaging company (and a damn fine Scrabble opponent). Sometimes we never got round to the game while I listened to his litany of complaints about the persecution he suffered at the hands (and secret space rays) of the Welsh Milk Marketing Board and the men from the electricity planet. I never bothered arguing with him. Why do you bother?

 

[tfk]

100% wrong.

Small, light (i.e., low mass, low inertial force from high deceleration), flexible items are the MOST LIKELY type of thing to survive airplane crashes. Even fiery crashes.

Light, flexible things such as IDs, wallets & ... passports.

Compare the remnants to this fiery crash:
PSA flight 1771
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff7h7Ll8Dl4
mass murder, suicide, plane crash, 8 mile debris field, Alex Jones lying.

They even found the suicide note, written on a paper air sickness bag.

"OMG, how did it survive the crash! How convenient that they "just happened" to find it!! The FBI, the NTSB must have planted it !!! Inside Job !!!!"

Achim's personal incredulity is uninformed by the evidence & experience of the real world.

 

[tfk]

I used to play Scrabble, weekly, with an erudite, intelligent ex-journalist schizophrenic. Mostly, he was engaging company (and a damn fine Scrabble opponent). Sometimes we never got round to the game while I listened to his litany of complaints about the persecution he suffered at the hands (and secret space rays) of the Welsh Milk Marketing Board and the men from the electricity planet. I never bothered arguing with him. Why do you bother?

Because Scrabble with them is no fun, since it's too easy to cheat when playing over the interwebz ...?

 

[jiggeryqua]

Because Scrabble with them is no fun, since it's too easy to cheat when playing over the interwebz ...?

Well we were playing in my space, since he was my neighbour. Was there an actual point you were trying to make? The point I was trying to make is that there's no point arguing with lunatics.

 

[TheAntiV]

You use the victims as excuse for physical nonsense or the lack of evidence?

Thanks to your vulgar excuse I conclude that neither hip nor passport bounced back from the building (a claim that "No Planers" like). The reason for that is not a question of whether or not a passport might survive a plane crash. The reason for that is velocity, acceleration, inertia...
Even one engine of UA175 damaged a building several blocks away because it simply moved on.
In short, there is no freakin' way for a passport from the cockpit of AA11 to escape during the first 5 meters of impact and to bounce back sailing against the wind down to Vesey St. Who ever told you that story told you a blatant lie.

There was no need to “plant passports”? Really? ...because why?

Is it because Gonzalez relays that Ong is saying the hijackers from seats 2A and 2B are in the cockpit with the pilots? (That's recorded.)

Is it because Marquis later recollects that Ong said the four hijackers had come from first-class seats: 2A, 2B, 9A, and 9B? (That's not recorded and 9B was allegedly the seat of the killed passenger.)

Is it because Amy Sweeney gave for the hijackers at about the same time: 9D, 9G, and 10B but nothing about 2A and 2B? (That's not recorded too.)


That conversation is not recorded and contradicts Ong in several parts. Nevertheless, in the end we have allegedly 5 hijackers, mace in business class and the hijackers in the cockpit with the pilots.


...makes 7 people in the cockpit, 2 stabbed, 1 killed, mace, evacuation.

Is it thinkable that 21 passengers from business class and first class were evacuated into the back rows of economy class and the people in the economy class still believe a medical emergency is taking place in first class?



Would the people in economy still believe in a medical emergency even if the flight attendants talk about an erratic flight or a rapid decent? Is it thinkable that the passengers were quite all the time? ...even if no message from the cockpit reached the passengers because high-precision pilot Atta pushed 3 times the wrong button?
...answering the question of Boston Center by repeating his address to the passengers?

Boston: "American 11, are you trying to call?"
Voice: "No body move! ... you endanger yourself and the airplane."

And twoofers don't exploit the suffering of the victims to advance their own strange theories right?

If you’re still not sure, preferring to go with intution and say survival was impossible, then consider this story from the Columbia Space Shuttle disaster. The craft broke up on re-entry, 40 miles about the earth, and debris fell over a wide area. Amongst this was one of the experiments involving tiny worms.

"The worms and moss were in the same nine-pound locker located in the mid-deck of the space shuttle. The worms were placed in six canisters, each holding eight petri dishes.

The worms, which are about the size of the tip of a pencil, were part of an experiment testing a new synthetic nutrient solution. The worms, which have a life cycle of between seven and 10 days, were four or five generations removed from the original worms placed on Columbia in January."

Remarkably, not only were the canisters retrieved, but the worms were still alive (the above link tells you more). Who would have believed that? Not the scientist in charge of the experiment, who said in the same story:

``It's pretty astonishing to get the possibility of data after all that has happened,'' Sack said. ``We never expected it. We expected a molten mass.''

In fact if we wanted to start a “Columbia space shuttle crash never happened” conspiracy site then that would make great “evidence”, because it goes against what you’d expect. And there’s a great quote, too. But then maybe intuition doesn’t tell the whole story, and more can survive explosions than you think.

 

[carlitos]

Well we were playing in my space, since he was my neighbour. Was there an actual point you were trying to make? The point I was trying to make is that there's no point arguing with lunatics.

But there is a point in your reading as others debate with lunatics?

(concern troll is concerned?)

 

[tsig]

I used to play Scrabble, weekly, with an erudite, intelligent ex-journalist schizophrenic. Mostly, he was engaging company (and a damn fine Scrabble opponent). Sometimes we never got round to the game while I listened to his litany of complaints about the persecution he suffered at the hands (and secret space rays) of the Welsh Milk Marketing Board and the men from the electricity planet. I never bothered arguing with him. Why do you bother?

We're not playing Scrabble.

 

[triforcharity]

Bounce means AA11 came in from north and crashed into the north face of the north tower WTC1. The wind also came from north. Vesey St is north of the north tower. That passport didn't go through the tower.

Do you not realize that a HUGE ****** explosion happened? It didn't need to "bounce". An explosion that size could very well send a small paper booklet flying in another direction.

 

[Dave Rogers]

I used to play Scrabble, weekly, with an erudite, intelligent ex-journalist schizophrenic. Mostly, he was engaging company (and a damn fine Scrabble opponent). Sometimes we never got round to the game while I listened to his litany of complaints about the persecution he suffered at the hands (and secret space rays) of the Welsh Milk Marketing Board and the men from the electricity planet. I never bothered arguing with him. Why do you bother?

Because truthers aren't restricting themselves to boring their Scrabble partners.

Dave

 

[newton3376]

So even if that passport had a chance to went through the building, it had no chance to land at Vesey St.

Prove it.

It had a infinit small chance to escape the fire and it had no chance to escape without scratches. It's insane.

Prove it.

Where are your probability calculations for that?

In the same way one could state that you can shoot at a passport without leaving any trace. And that passport made it against the wind back to the other side of the building. NO WAY!

Are you comparing shooting at a passport with a passport inside a plane that struck a skyscraper?

WHAT?

You talk about all the fluttering paper? Printer paper and documents from the offices? Well, the fuel explosion caused a lot of pressure abel to blow the windows out. Sure, there was a lot of paper but certainly not from the cockpit with a high speed crushed airplane coming behind it followed by 10000gal of vaporized fuel exploding and overcoming every piece of metal.

Can you prove any of this?

Do you know what happens in an explosion? Have you ever seen or done any post blast analysis for an explosion?

There are ALWAYS random artifacts that get thrown around in an explosion.....it is not something that one can predict or model accurately.

Explosions throw stuff around in all kinds of directions and debris ends up landing in all kinds of places. Your comments are really really silly dude.