Taco Bell sued

[JohnnyG]

The so called "conundrum" is you making up your own regulations. Where did you come up with the idea that 88% is high enough beef content to be marketed as seasoned ground beef? You just made that up. Admit it, you arbitrarily decided for the entire World what "beef" content is or isn't misleading.

There has been plenty of justification posted in this thread that 88% can reasonably be called seasoned ground beef. You have provided none that it cannot.

This doesn't even begin to address the question of what Taco Bell is using as "beef". Taco Bell and Tyson are tight lipped, but it sure as heck isn't Grade A beef. From the misleading "100% USDA inspected" statement you can bet the cows were inspected by a USDA vet and ordered put down

McDonalds says their beef patties are made from "100% pure USDA inspected beef..."
Burger King says their beef patties are made from "100% USDA inspected ground beef".
The statement seems to be rather common in the industry.

 

[Furcifer]

Your whole argument seems to hinge on the false dichotomy that because Tyson labels it "taco meat filling" it can't also be "seasoned ground beef". You are wrong.

Let's play a game. It's called "what doesn't belong". Here's the rules:

“Ground Beef” shall consist of chopped fresh and/or frozen beef with or without seasoning and without the addition of beef fat as such, shall not contain more than 30 percent fat, and shall not contain added water, phosphates, binders, or extenders.

Here's the tricky part, pay close attention:

Water, isolated oat product, salt, chili pepper, onion powder, tomato powder, oats (wheat), soy lecithin, sugar, spices, maltodextrin (a polysaccharide that is absorbed as glucose), soybean oil (anti-dusting agent), garlic powder, autolyzed yeast extract, citric acid, caramel color, cocoa powder, silicon dioxide (anti-caking agent), natural flavors, yeast, modified corn starch, natural smoke flavor, salt, sodium phosphate, less than 2% of beef broth, potassium phosphate, and potassium lactate.

So what doesn't belong in "ground beef" that's in taco filling?

(this was a test right? someone bet you you couldn't get me to quote the regulation for the 20th time or something. right?)

 

[JohnnyG]

Let's play a game. It's called "what doesn't belong". Here's the rules:




Here's the tricky part, pay close attention:


So what doesn't belong in "ground beef" that's in taco filling?

(this was a test right? someone bet you you couldn't get me to quote the regulation for the 20th time or something. right?)

Once again you fail reading comprehension.

1. Does the regulation apply to restaurants? Not according to the USDA.
USDA > 3bodyproblem

The USDA doesn't regulate what companies such as restaurants can describe to their customers in advertisements as "beef," "chicken" or "meat," said USDA press officer Neil Gaffney.

2. Does the regulation apply to calling something "seasoned ground beef"?
No, it is clearly referring to calling something "Ground Beef". "Ground Beef" is an ingredient in "seasoned ground beef", but they are not the same.

“Ground Beef” shall consist of chopped fresh and/or frozen beef with or without seasoning and without the addition of beef fat as such, shall not contain more than 30 percent fat, and shall not contain added water, phosphates, binders, or extenders.

 

[PhantomWolf]

3bodyproblem,

Read this very carefully. Where is the USDA description of what "Seasoned Ground Beef" is? No, not "Ground Beef", that's a different product. I want the one for "Seasoned Ground Beef."

Just in case you don't know the difference, "Ground Beef" is the raw product that doesn't have additives like water and can't contain more than a certain amount of beef cheek meat.

Right, now, where is the regulation that describes "Seasoned Ground Beef"? If it doesn't have seasoned in the name, you have the wrong product.

 

[Furcifer]

Once again you fail reading comprehension.
1. Does the regulation apply to restaurants? Not according to the USDA.
USDA > 3bodyproblem

lmfao, this is what you said:

Your whole argument seems to hinge on the false dichotomy that because Tyson labels it "taco meat filling" it can't also be "seasoned ground beef". You are wrong.

The regulation applies to labels. So much for comprehension, you don't understand your own words. I suspect you will have trouble following what comes next.

2. Does the regulation apply to calling something "seasoned ground beef"?
No, it is clearly referring to calling something "Ground Beef". "Ground Beef" is an ingredient in "seasoned ground beef", but they are not the same.

You can call it "magic fairy dust". You just can't advertise it as "seasoned ground beef" and not have it be misleading.

I don't know how you lost the game. I even highlighted the important parts.

This particular argument of creating your own special product called "seasoned ground beef" has been shown to be false because of the USDA regulations. You may want to read them and try to understand them before you pursue this any further.

 

[Furcifer]

Read this very carefully. Where is the USDA description of what "Seasoned Ground Beef" is?

"Ground Beef” shall consist of chopped fresh and/or frozen beef with or without seasoning and without the addition of beef fat as such, shall not contain more than 30 percent fat, and shall not contain added water, phosphates, binders, or extenders.

Note the highlighted parts.

 

[slingblade]

"Ground Beef” shall consist of chopped fresh and/or frozen beef with or without seasoning and without the addition of beef fat as such, shall not contain more than 30 percent fat, and shall not contain added water, phosphates, binders, or extenders.

Note the highlighted parts.

When it's raw. Where are the regulations for when it's been cooked?

 

[Silly Green Monkey]

He's not going to listen or respond to your questions beyond endless spamming of what he's already written, mixed with vicious mocking for not agreeing with him yet. He does this everywhere.

 

[JohnnyG]

You can call it "magic fairy dust". You just can't advertise it as "seasoned ground beef" and not have it be misleading.

From the USDA press office...

The USDA doesn't regulate what companies such as restaurants can describe to their customers in advertisements as "beef," "chicken" or "meat," said USDA press officer Neil Gaffney.

I highlighted the important part in case you missed it. None of the regulations you have been quoting apply to restaurant advertising.

I also did a search of the USDA policy book for "seasoned ground beef" and here are the results...

Reader has finished searching the document. No matches were found.

Apparently they don't have a definition for that product. If you believe that 88% is not sufficient to be called seasoned ground beef, you have not presented any evidence that it is anything more than your opinion...and you know what they say about opinions.

 

[slingblade]

He's not going to listen or respond to your questions beyond endless spamming of what he's already written, mixed with vicious mocking for not agreeing with him yet. He does this everywhere.

I know. It's something to do.

 

[tesscaline]

From the USDA press office...

I highlighted the important part in case you missed it. None of the regulations you have been quoting apply to restaurant advertising.

I also did a search of the USDA policy book for "seasoned ground beef" and here are the results...


Apparently they don't have a definition for that product. If you believe that 88% is not sufficient to be called seasoned ground beef, you have not presented any evidence that it is anything more than your opinion...and you know what they say about opinions.

The FSIS (part of the USDA) does. I've linked and quoted it already

 

[Uncayimmy]

For those who continue to think that the FDA, USDA, and FTC each operate in a vacuum, please review the following (repost).

http://www.ftc.gov/be/healthcare/docs/V910015agfsisnutrition.PDF
The FTC has jurisdiction over the advertising of food and has concurrent jurisdiction with the FDA and USDA over the labeling of food. The FTC also has statutory authority to enforce a number of laws that mandate disclosure, including the Federal Cigarette Labeling and Advertising Act, the Truth in Lending Act, and the Energy Policy and Conservation Act, which regulates appliance labeling, and to enforce several laws relating to standard-setting, including the Wool Products Labeling Act and the Magnuson-Moss Warranty & FTC Improvement Act...

http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/ah715/ah715c.pdf
Three agencies share primary responsibility for Federal regulation of nutrition information: the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and the Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS) of the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA). The Federal Trade Commission regulates food advertising, while the other two agencies share responsibility for regulating labels; FSIS regulates meat and poultry product labeling and FDA regulates other foods labeling. The NLEA addressed FDA-regulated packages, and FSIS issued parallel regulations.

The USDA says...

http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/aib750/aib750k.pdf
Advertising cases are usually brought under the FTC's authority to pursue deceptive business practices. An assessment of what the agency considers deceptive must be determined from cases or other agency pronouncements during the period of interest.

This last one is what I think 3B is trying to say. The FTC needs to look at what the USDA and other agencies claim when making their determinations even though the FTC is not actually enforcing USDA rules.

Honestly, I don't know how much more clear it can get. While the USDA and FDA do not directly regulate some things that the FTC handles, the FCT will look at USDA/FDA pronouncements and regulations to make judgments about the things that they do handle.

 

[Furcifer]

When it's raw. Where are the regulations for when it's been cooked?

They're the same, the labeling requirements change depending on what's added during cooking.

For instance, seasoned ground beef like you prepare at home, and not taco meat filling, would be labeled "Seasoned Cooked Ground Beef"

Policy memo 84A

"If cooked, uncured red meat products that contain added solutions/substances prior to cooking are cooked back to or below the weight of the fresh (green weight) article, words, such as "seasoned" and "flavored," are to be used to reflect the addition of the added substances, e.g., Seasoned Cooked Beef."

 

[Furcifer]

Apparently they don't have a definition for that product. If you believe that 88% is not sufficient to be called seasoned ground beef, you have not presented any evidence that it is anything more than your opinion...and you know what they say about opinions.

Indeed they don't define every single product, it takes some comprehension skills to figure out what regulations apply.

 

[PhantomWolf]

"Ground Beef” shall consist of chopped fresh and/or frozen beef with or without seasoning and without the addition of beef fat as such, shall not contain more than 30 percent fat, and shall not contain added water, phosphates, binders, or extenders.

Note the highlighted parts.

Sorry, you have quoted the regulation for "Ground Beef". It doesn't say that it is the regulation for "Seasoned Ground Beef". All you have done is show that "Ground Beef" may have seasoning in it. Now can you find the one labeled "Seasoned Ground Beef" yes or no?

 

[Furcifer]

While the USDA and FDA do not directly regulate some things that the FTC handles, the FCT will look at USDA/FDA pronouncements and regulations to make judgments about the things that they do handle.

This is proving to be a momentous leap in comprehension skills for some posters.

 

[PhantomWolf]

The FSIS (part of the USDA) does. I've linked and quoted it already

Actually that was "Seasoned Cooked Beef" we're looking for "Seasoned Ground Beef", but hey in 3BP's world were "Seasoned Ground Beef" is identical to "Ground Beef" because it's permissible to put seasoning into "Ground Beef" and still label it "Ground Beef" it's probably close enough.

 

[Furcifer]

Sorry, you have quoted the regulation for "Ground Beef". It doesn't say that it is the regulation for "Seasoned Ground Beef". All you have done is show that "Ground Beef" may have seasoning in it. Now can you find the one labeled "Seasoned Ground Beef" yes or no?

This is the regulation for seasoned ground beef. Perhaps you missing the highlighting?

 

[tesscaline]

Actually that was "Seasoned Cooked Beef" we're looking for "Seasoned Ground Beef", but hey in 3BP's world were "Seasoned Ground Beef" is identical to "Ground Beef" because it's permissible to put seasoning into "Ground Beef" and still label it "Ground Beef" it's probably close enough.

lol. And he's started quoting what i quoted as if it supports his case some how...

This is really too hilarious.

 

[PhantomWolf]

For instance, seasoned ground beef like you prepare at home, and not taco meat filling, would be labeled "Seasoned Cooked Ground Beef"

Policy memo 84A

"If cooked, uncured red meat products that contain added solutions/substances prior to cooking are cooked back to or below the weight of the fresh (green weight) article, words, such as "seasoned" and "flavored," are to be used to reflect the addition of the added substances, e.g., Seasoned Cooked Beef."

If I cooked up a batch of 100% ground beef and added in additives that were solutions and substances (ie water and seasoning) that made it 88% meat and 12% water a seasoning, then cooked it back to below the fresh weight, I could still call that Taco Meat Filling.