Bill Gates and Vaccines

Safe-Keeper said:
!Kaggen, I know you've already been asked this, but do you harbor the same resentment towards everyone who spend money on other causes than fighting starvation, or is it only wrong when the rich do it?
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Like I said before I think spending money and time on food security is of the highest priority. I have always thought that and that's why when I had a choice between med school and agriculture I choose agriculture. Less glamorous, but more important , IN MY OPINION.

The fact that agriculture receives lip service when it comes to funding(unless its for the pseudoscience of GMO's because its pundits promise the world in record time and investors like that) definitely does piss me off, but its not just Gates who is guilty of this, just about everyone is.

Our soil science department at our local agricultural university has shrank to insignificance as the now huge genetic engineering department has taken over the entire building and populated it with the latest and the greatest and all the students mesmerized at all the new toys which will make them all powerful.

The irony of all that is that the farmers in South Africa are crying for information on how to improve their soil quality and use less fertilizers and of course nobody in academic circles is interested as there is no funding for this, no peers to review and no academic points to gain..
 
pgwenthold said:
Oh, it makes plenty of sense when you realize that Kaggan is just an anti-vaxxer, and is just trying to poison the well to make it sound less obvious.

According to !Kaggan, there will ALWAYS be something more important that should be done before vaccination.
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So your on a skeptics forum and you don't read the evidence or supply any of your own and then make up a conspiracy theory instead.

I smell a rat with this one....
 
dtugg said:
That is interesting. Lots (most?) surgeons in the US (many of whom have God complexes) would be very offended at being called Mr.
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It's a history thing.

Up until the 18th Century Surgeons were also Barbers. That's why their sign is a red and white striped pole, 'blood and bandages'.

Medicine and Surgery were seperate.

Surgeons wouldn't have ahd any medical training or be graduates of any College so they were Mister not Doctor.
 
!Kaggen said:
Oh really :rolleyes: the one is caused by the lack of food and the other is too.
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You really should go and find out what words mean before you roll your eyes at people. Let's turn to the excellent QI for details on people dying of malnutrition whilst eating plenty:
 
Sledge said:
You really should go and find out what words mean before you roll your eyes at people. Let's turn to the excellent QI for details on people dying of malnutrition whilst eating plenty:
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Sledge at least your funny, even when your wrong.

My definition is the same as Wiki's

Starvation is a severe reduction in vitamin, nutrient and energy intake. It is the most extreme form of malnutrition.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation
 
This is almost on a par with Saggy's Stundie nomination this month.
 
Sledge said:
All quadrupeds are not horses.
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All those that starve are malnourished.

All those that die of malnutrition die of starvation the most severe form of malnutrition.

Get it ?

Or perhaps you know of more severe consequences of malnutrition compared to death....
 
steenkh said:
So your own source says that malnutrition is not the same as starvation.
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Huh!

The WHO says malnutrition is linked to 1/3 of all deaths in children.
The most severe form of malnutrition is starvation.
Starvation is the form of malnutrition which is linked to 1/3 of all deaths in children.

Or do you also know of more severe forms of malnutrition other than that leads to death? Prey tell...
 
Maybe if you keep saying the same thing over and over again, people will accept it. This approach doesn't usually work, but you might get lucky.
 
!Kaggen said:
Or do you also know of more severe forms of malnutrition other than that leads to death? Prey tell...
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It's not a matter of "more severe forms" of malnutrition. The point of that website you quoted from is that many deaths from diarrhea, pneumonia, and other illnesses can be linked to malnutrition even in children that are not starving.
If X number of kids starve, and Y number of kids die from childhood diseases linked to not having the proper nutrients, then at least X+Y deaths are linked to malnutrition. That does not mean that X+Y kids starved, and Y may still be much larger than X (meaning diseases may still be a more common cause of death than starvation).
Is that clear?
 
AvalonXQ said:
It's not a matter of "more severe forms" of malnutrition. The point of that website you quoted from is that many deaths from diarrhea, pneumonia, and other illnesses can be linked to malnutrition even in children that are not starving.
If X number of kids starve, and Y number of kids die from childhood diseases linked to not having the proper nutrients, then at least X+Y deaths are linked to malnutrition. That does not mean that X+Y kids starved, and Y may still be much larger than X (meaning diseases may still be a more common cause of death than starvation).
Is that clear?
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I realized long ago that's what was being assumed. However it's irrelevant to my argument, as a disease which is an opportunistic killer linked to malnutrition is still death by malnutrition i. e. starvation.
Stop malnutrition stop disease stop deaths.
Is that clear?
 
!Kaggen said:
I realized long ago that's what was being assumed. However it's irrelevant to my argument, as a disease which is an opportunistic killer linked to malnutrition is still death by malnutrition i. e. starvation.
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The bolded text is the problem. Starvation is specifically death by not eating enough. Malnutrition is much broader than starvation, and deaths due to malnutrition where kids are eating enough, but eating the wrong things, are not starvation deaths.


Stop malnutrition stop disease stop deaths.
Is that clear?
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Yes, that's clear, and I don't believe anyone disagrees. But stop equating malnutrition and starvation, because they're not the same thing, all right? Deaths due to disease linked to malnutrition are not starvation deaths.

EDIT: Also, as I understand it, the solution is different. The primary cause of people starving to death is political -- it happens in places where people are prevented from getting enough food. The primary causes of malnutrition are cultural and economic -- people are too poor to get the right foods or don't know what the rights foods are. So, although starvation is a form of malnutrition, the two problems are practically very distinct.
 
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So the only people criticising Gates for this are a couple of Anti Vaxxers?
I am not impressed.
 
dudalb said:
So the only people criticising Gates for this are a couple of Anti Vaxxers?
I am not impressed.
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Then again, on what other grounds could it be criticized? I mean, it is a seriously great thing that he is doing. You have to be pretty loopy to find fault with it, regardless of what you think of him personally or Microsoft.
 
Emet said:
Gates didn't become a gazillionaire by being a bad businessman. Whatever his passions, I think it's a fair bet he determined it was a good 'investment' of his philanthropic resources.
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IIRC, when they were setting up the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, they had no idea how the money was going to be spent and making that decision was something to which they were going to dedicate a great deal of thought and research. Spending many of their truckloads of money on vaccinating people who would otherwise stand a good chance of dying from preventable diseases seems to me a solid choice.
 
!Kaggen said:
Oh really :rolleyes: the one is caused by the lack of food and the other is too.
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No. It isn't. One is caused by the lack of food and the other caused from any number of reasons. Off the top of my head I can name one disease that actually causes death by malnourishment.
EDIT:
Make that multiple diseases.
 
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