Taco Bell sued

ARubberChickenWithAPulley said:
There it is, straight from the mouth of the FTC. USDA labeling rules do not get carried over and "applied" as rules for advertising by the FTC.
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Of course the FTC doesn't have any specific rules, they don't make the rules the USDA does.

Taco Bell could advertise their taco filling as 100% beef tenderloin and the FTC doesn't have any specific rules from preventing them from doing so.

When they determine if Taco Bell is being misleading however they are going to look at what the USDA call beef tenderloin and what Taco Bell calls beef tenderloin.
 
3bodyproblem said:
Of course the FTC doesn't have any specific rules, they don't make the rules the USDA does.

Taco Bell could advertise their taco filling as 100% beef tenderloin and the FTC doesn't have any specific rules from preventing them from doing so.

When they determine if Taco Bell is being misleading however they are going to look at what the USDA call beef tenderloin and what Taco Bell calls beef tenderloin.
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Evidence?
 
JoelKatz said:
Except the only place they call it "seasoning" is right before they list the ingredients in it. So no reasonable consumer could be confused or mislead. And no law prohibits this.
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Do you mean Taco Bell or the supplier? Because there are laws preventing the supplier from labeling it incorrectly.

JoelKatz said:
Right, but that's not the question. The question is whether they are allowed in "seasoned ground beef". The laws regarding "ground beef" seasoning are only for products labeled as ground beef, which this is not.
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No that's because it's taco meat filling.

JoelKatz said:
And if you believed this argument, the whole bit about extenders and fillers would be a sideshow. *Water* is not allowed in ground beef according to these regulations.
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Not as an ingredient in ground beef.
 
slingblade said:
We've been trying to tell you for page after page now, that you are badly confused about exactly who our US regulations apply to, about which US departments regulate what, and about how those departments interact, or do not, and when.

You show a total lack of understanding when you cite the USDA and then say "I think there's another body for meat as well."

Yeah, it's the USDA, the United States Department of Agriculture. The FSIS is an agency within the USDA.

Yes, it is confusing, but some of us have worked in American restaurants all our bloody lives, and we know a thing or two about it.

My husband wants me to tell you that he knows for a fact the raw beef regulations you were repeatedly spamming earlier have nothing to do with restaurants, because of one thing:

Beef cheek meat.

There isn't a single cook in a restaurant that can open a package of raw ground beef and tell you which of that meat is beef cheek meat, nor how much of that meat is in the grind before him. Could you? Would you know this, just by looking at the fresh or frozen ground beef just delivered to your restaurant?

Could you? If not, how are you supposed to be following that USDA regulation for ground beef? Explain to us all how, as a cook in restaurant, or even as a cook in a food service kitchen (Tyson), you are supposed to be following those regulations for the amount of beef cheek meat that is allowable in raw ground beef.

We'll wait.

You did make my husband laugh, however, at your utter and obvious lack of knowledge on this subject.


Seasonings:

You're also relying on the dictionary definition of what a seasoning is, and not on the government regulations that determine such.

For instance, I believe the Taco Bell seasonings list had an ingredient on it that was called an "anti-caking agent."

Do you know what anti-caking agents are used in? They are used in bulk batches of mixed dry food chemicals, to keep them from forming lumps in what's supposed to be a powdered, loose mixture. You know, like seasoning mixes.

Many chemicals are allowed into US commercial food products, and are considered part of the food. In this case, part of the seasoning mix. And our regulations require you to list every ingredient found in such a mix, whether it constitutes what the average home cook would consider a seasoning or not.

Do you know what soy lethicin is? It's a vegetable form of the lethicin found in egg yolks. It's a cheaper product than egg yolks. And it's been found to reduce cholesterol levels, and so is preferable to use in food products that would normally use egg yolks. It is an anti-dusting agent, as is soybean oil, both of which are found in the TB seasoning ingredients.

Dusting is a fire hazard in plants that use dry, organic chemicals. The dust from these organic chemicals is flammable, and it doesn't take much of a concentration in the air to start a fire or explosion. An anti-dusting agent, like soybean oil or soy lethicin, is needed to keep the amount of dust in the air down, not only so it doesn't cause fires, but so the workers don't have to breathe it.

I can go look up every ingredient in that list that you swear is not a seasoning and show you exactly why each of them can legitimately be found in a commercial seasoning mix.

But really, I wonder when you will realize that your lack of expertise in, or familiarity with, commercial food production is making you look pretty foolish...
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tl;dr

Taco Bell gets in a product called taco meat filling, then advertises it as seasoned ground beef. That makes them deceptive, because anyone can tell you taco meat filling isn't seasoned ground beef.

And by anyone I mean the USDA. It's as plain as the nose on your face.

There's no specific law preventing Taco Bell from advertising veal cutlets and serving pork cutlets instead. That doesn't change the fact that it's deceptive.
 
PhantomWolf said:
Well I just cooked hamburgers and they were yummy, but obviously I couldn't ever do them in the US because I couldn't call the patties Beef Patties.
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Obviously you don't understand, you can call them whatever you want. You could call them wolf burgers if that's what your heart desired.

You just couldn't start a national ad campaign and expect the FTC not to look into it.

Go ahead, try it, I dare you! :D
 
3bodyproblem said:
tl;dr

Taco Bell gets in a product called taco meat filling, then advertises it as seasoned ground beef. That makes them deceptive, because anyone can tell you taco meat filling isn't seasoned ground beef.

And by anyone I mean the USDA. It's as plain as the nose on your face.

There's no specific law preventing Taco Bell from advertising veal cutlets and serving pork cutlets instead. That doesn't change the fact that it's deceptive.
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Is 88 > 40?
 
3bodyproblem said:
Do you mean Taco Bell or the supplier? Because there are laws preventing the supplier from labeling it incorrectly.
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Taco bell. There is only one place they refer to oats as a "seasoning" as far as I know. And in that place, they immediately explain that the "seasoning" contains oats.

http://www.tacobell.com/nutrition/ingredientstatement said:
Beef, Water, Seasoning [Isolated Oat Product, Salt, Chili Pepper, Onion Powder, Tomato Powder, Oats (Wheat), Soy Lecithin, Sugar, Spices, Maltodextrin, Soybean Oil (Anti-dusting Agent), Garlic Powder, Autolyzed Yeast Extract, Citric Acid, Caramel Color, Cocoa Powder (Processed With Alkali), Silicon Dioxide, Natural Flavors, Yeast, Modified Corn Starch, Natural Smoke Flavor], Salt, Sodium Phosphates.
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This describes the mixture that is probably mostly oats as being "seasoning". This could be argued to be deceptive except that the next word after "seasoning" explains that it contains oats. If they just called it "seasoning", you could make an argument that a reasonable consumer would not expect extenders to be labeled as "seasoning".

I have found no other place where Taco Bell refers to the oat mixture as "seasoning".

The description of the resulting taco filling as a "seasoned ground beef" taco filling is not deceptive. There is no reason to expect that "seasoned ground beef" would contain nothing but beef and seasoning. A reasonable consumer would know taco fillings almost always contain additives to facilitate processing and cooking such as water and oil, texture modifiers such as grains or maltodextrin, and so on. (And if they don't know these things, it's more or less impossible to deceive them. Deception is based on the consumer drawing false conclusions, which can only happen if he has the knowledge to draw the false conclusions from.)
 
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3bodyproblem said:
Picard>Kirk ?
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Yeah, that's about what I expected in response.

Now, are you not answering because your sole reason for posting on this thread is just to juice the piglet or is it because you genuinely don't know if 88 is greater than 40?
 
slingblade said:
Is it against the rules to recipe a thread about food....?
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"Beef fat may be added to "hamburger," but not "ground beef." A maximum of 30% fat is allowed in either hamburger or ground beef. Both hamburger and ground beef can have seasonings, but no water, phosphates, extenders, or binders added. The labeling of meat food products must comply with the Federal Meat Inspection Act (FMIA) and the meat inspection regulations and labeling policies. "

slingblade said:
You show a total lack of understanding when you cite the USDA and then say "I think there's another body for meat as well."
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Yah i was thinking about this. I you knew it was an act and not a specific body you could have just said so.
 
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JoelKatz said:
Taco bell. There is only one place they refer to oats as a "seasoning" as far as I know. And in that place, they immediately explain that the "seasoning" contains oats.



This describes the mixture that is probably mostly oats as being "seasoning". This could be argued to be deceptive except that the next word after "seasoning" explains that it contains oats. If they just called it "seasoning", you could make an argument that a reasonable consumer would not expect extenders to be labeled as "seasoning".

I have found no other place where Taco Bell refers to the oat mixture as "seasoning".

The description of the resulting taco filling as a "seasoned ground beef" taco filling is not deceptive. There is no reason to expect that "seasoned ground beef" would contain nothing but beef and seasoning. A reasonable consumer would know taco fillings almost always contain additives to facilitate processing and cooking such as water and oil, texture modifiers such as grains or maltodextrin, and so on. (And if they don't know these things, it's more or less impossible to deceive them. Deception is based on the consumer drawing false conclusions, which can only happen if he has the knowledge to draw the false conclusions from.)
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This is taco meat filling seasoning, not ground beef seasoning. It says so on the label and the USDA approved it as such. If they would have tried to label it "seasoned ground beef" it would never have gotten approval.

Does that make sense to you? You seem like an intelligent person so it should.
 
3bodyproblem said:
"Beef fat may be added to "hamburger," but not "ground beef." A maximum of 30% fat is allowed in either hamburger or ground beef. Both hamburger and ground beef can have seasonings, but no water, phosphates, extenders, or binders added. The labeling of meat food products must comply with the Federal Meat Inspection Act (FMIA) and the meat inspection regulations and labeling policies. "



Yah i was thinking about this. I you knew it was an act and not a specific body you could have just said so.
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The FMIA does not say what you think it does.

You should read it, it's really short:

http://www.fda.gov/RegulatoryInformation/Legislation/ucm148693.htm
 
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BobTheDonkey said:
Yeah, that's about what I expected in response.

Now, are you not answering because your sole reason for posting on this thread is just to juice the piglet or is it because you genuinely don't know if 88 is greater than 40?
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BpbTheDonkey, obvious troll is obvious. OK?
 
BobTheDonkey said:
The FMIA does not do what you think it does.
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Probably, I was thinking it was an Agency, not an Act.

There's just a bunch of agencies in the Us that have their hands in the food game, it's hard to determine who says what, when and to whom. Anyone that says they know because their husband is a cook is a liar.
 
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