Taco Bell sued

It isn't a USDA approved seasoning. Even if it was, there's a few others that aren't seasonings either. I seem to have lost that list. But it's pointless, no fillers and no extenders in ground beef. That's the rules!

Yes those are the rules -- for the labeling of beef by beef producers. Labeling != advertising, and Taco Bell != beef producer.

Given the length of this thread, I'm sure this has been cited before, but just for the heck of it:
The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is the agency that regulates whether or not advertising is deceptive. The FTC has no specific rules that define what can be advertised as meat or beef, said Betsy Lordan, an FTC spokeswoman.

There it is, straight from the mouth of the FTC. USDA labeling rules do not get carried over and "applied" as rules for advertising by the FTC.
 
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OK found that list:

Water- not a seasoning :(
isolated oat product- not a seasoning :(
salt- there's one :)
chili pepper- :)
onion powder,- :)
tomato powder :)
oats- :(
soy lecithin :(
sugar- :)
spices- :)
maltodextrin- :(
soybean oil- :(
garlic powder, :)
autolyzed yeast extract :(
citric acid, :)
caramel color :(
cocoa powder :)
silicon dioxide :(
natural flavors :)
yeast :(
modified corn starch :(
natural smoke flavor ? (nitrate? msg?)
salt :) second times a charm
sodium phosphate :(
potassium phosphate :(
potassium lactate. :(

There's barely any seasoning :( It's heavily processed taco filling.

Where's the beef?

Actually if you insist on following only the Herbs and Spices listed in 182.10 Spices and other natural seasonings and flavorings, then the only one that counts as a seasoning is Chilli based on that Capsicum is allowed. Since we don't know what natural flavours and spices are in those we can't allow them, and salt, sugar, cocoa, onions, tomatos, garlic, and citric acid are not in your list so according to your previous claims, aren't seasonings.

Hence under your claims, if you added Salt, Garlic Powder, and Onioin Powder to Ground Beef, you could not call it "seasoned ground beef", in fact you couldn't call it ground beef at all.
 
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Because there are extenders and fillers in their "seasoning".
Except the only place they call it "seasoning" is right before they list the ingredients in it. So no reasonable consumer could be confused or mislead. And no law prohibits this.

They aren't allowed in "ground beef" seasoning as per the USDA regulation.
Right, but that's not the question. The question is whether they are allowed in "seasoned ground beef". The laws regarding "ground beef" seasoning are only for products labeled as ground beef, which this is not.

And if you believed this argument, the whole bit about extenders and fillers would be a sideshow. *Water* is not allowed in ground beef according to these regulations.

It's pretty simple, it's called "taco meat filling" because of the stuff Taco Bell puts in it. If they wanted "seasoned ground beef" they would have to remove everything but the stuff on the list you seem to think should have Lemon&Pepper.
You're back to Taco Bell misleading consumers because a reasonable consumer wouldn't know their taco filling was taco filling.

ETA: if you read that section of the regulation it mentions that if the spice isn't on the list you can submit it for their approval. Obviously what they put in it only amounts to "taco meat filling", not "seasoned ground beef".
And you're back to ignoring the fact that Taco Bell used the term "seasoned ground beef" to describe a taco filling in a context where a reasonable consumer would already know it was taco meat filling.
 
Yes they do. They don't apply them directly, they just make them.

The FTC applies them for advertising and the FSIS applies them to meat packers and FDA to manufacturing. (I think I've got it now ;) )

The US is confusing, they've got the USDA, the FDA, the FSIS and the FTC all involved in food. I think there's another body for meat as well.

We've been trying to tell you for page after page now, that you are badly confused about exactly who our US regulations apply to, about which US departments regulate what, and about how those departments interact, or do not, and when.

You show a total lack of understanding when you cite the USDA and then say "I think there's another body for meat as well."

Yeah, it's the USDA, the United States Department of Agriculture. The FSIS is an agency within the USDA.

Yes, it is confusing, but some of us have worked in American restaurants all our bloody lives, and we know a thing or two about it.

My husband wants me to tell you that he knows for a fact the raw beef regulations you were repeatedly spamming earlier have nothing to do with restaurants, because of one thing:

Beef cheek meat.

There isn't a single cook in a restaurant that can open a package of raw ground beef and tell you which of that meat is beef cheek meat, nor how much of that meat is in the grind before him. Could you? Would you know this, just by looking at the fresh or frozen ground beef just delivered to your restaurant?

Could you? If not, how are you supposed to be following that USDA regulation for ground beef? Explain to us all how, as a cook in restaurant, or even as a cook in a food service kitchen (Tyson), you are supposed to be following those regulations for the amount of beef cheek meat that is allowable in raw ground beef.

We'll wait.

You did make my husband laugh, however, at your utter and obvious lack of knowledge on this subject.


Seasonings:

You're also relying on the dictionary definition of what a seasoning is, and not on the government regulations that determine such.

For instance, I believe the Taco Bell seasonings list had an ingredient on it that was called an "anti-caking agent."

Do you know what anti-caking agents are used in? They are used in bulk batches of mixed dry food chemicals, to keep them from forming lumps in what's supposed to be a powdered, loose mixture. You know, like seasoning mixes.

Many chemicals are allowed into US commercial food products, and are considered part of the food. In this case, part of the seasoning mix. And our regulations require you to list every ingredient found in such a mix, whether it constitutes what the average home cook would consider a seasoning or not.

Do you know what soy lethicin is? It's a vegetable form of the lethicin found in egg yolks. It's a cheaper product than egg yolks. And it's been found to reduce cholesterol levels, and so is preferable to use in food products that would normally use egg yolks. It is an anti-dusting agent, as is soybean oil, both of which are found in the TB seasoning ingredients.

Dusting is a fire hazard in plants that use dry, organic chemicals. The dust from these organic chemicals is flammable, and it doesn't take much of a concentration in the air to start a fire or explosion. An anti-dusting agent, like soybean oil or soy lethicin, is needed to keep the amount of dust in the air down, not only so it doesn't cause fires, but so the workers don't have to breathe it.

I can go look up every ingredient in that list that you swear is not a seasoning and show you exactly why each of them can legitimately be found in a commercial seasoning mix.

But really, I wonder when you will realize that your lack of expertise in, or familiarity with, commercial food production is making you look pretty foolish...
 
... an "anti-caking agent."

... an anti-dusting agent ...

Would it be safe to say that items such as these are used to deal with issues that arise in industrial food settings and not so much (or even not at all) in residential settings?
 
Would it be safe to say that items such as these are used to deal with issues that arise in industrial food settings and not so much (or even not at all) in residential settings?

[re-read the question, understand it better now. Sorry.]

If you're asking me if home cooks would add those ingredients themselves, why would they need to? They are neither producing bulk powdered goods that need to stay powdery, nor are they working with organic dusts in a flammable manner or amount.

Yes, these are generally items that are used to deal with issues that arise in commercial mass-production of foods and food substances. Home cooks would have little or no use for an anti-caking agent or an anti-dusting agent at home.

It might be found at home if you bought a commercial mix that contains them, but home cooks wouldn't have them in their spice-rack, no.
 
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Yes, these are generally items that are used to deal with issues that arise in commercial mass-production of foods and food substances. Home cooks would have little or no use for an anti-caking agent or an anti-dusting agent at home.

In my experience, this is pretty typical in any kind of production, and it's something the layperson generally does not understand. There are almost always things that occur in industrial/commercial settings which do not occur in residential settings, usually due to the level of volume or quality involved. Software companies do things which lone coders do not. Hollywood cinematographers do things which someone filming their vacation does not. Thus attempts to make direct comparisons as some have done in this thread often do not work.
 
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Well I just cooked hamburgers and they were yummy, but obviously I couldn't ever do them in the US because I couldn't call the patties Beef Patties.

The Ingredients:

100% Beef Mince seasoned with the non-seasonings of salt, garlic powder, Tomato Sauce (Ketchup), and the seasonings, pepper and parsley, with an egg binder and oats as a starch to remove the gloopiness and glue it all together.

Now I am very full, and the patties with the oats in worked exceptionally. I would have had to add in twice as much if I had used flour or breadcrumbs, and they had a nice sweet sort of taste that you don't get with wheat.

Mmmmmm, that goes onto the long term cooking list. :D
 
Sounds rather tasty! Perhaps next time you could experiment with adding a bit of Worcestershire sauce?
 
Damn this thread... All it's doing now is making me hungry. And I just ate.

...

...

Taco Bell.
 
Hey, Nim, they're giving out free tacos if you "like" them on FB! But hurry, they only have 10 million of them. :D
 
Damnit, my BBQ grill is inaccessible due to snow and given I just had knee surgery a few weeks ago, I can't even shovel it free...

Burgers cooked indoors just aren't as good as free-range burgers :(
 
Sorry, Bob. We have an indoor grill, but it's electric, not charcoal. But, you know, when you get tired of frying them....


Phantom Wolf, I had meant to say in my earlier post to you that your having added oats to your ground beef patties gave me the idea for suggesting Worcestershire sauce. You see, oats, as we all now know, are a binder. When you pan-fry hamburger patties with the sauce, it tends to cook out a bit, gets smoky, pops and crackles because it gets too hot, and so on. But when you mentioned the oats, I thought perhaps those might help bind the sauce to the meat better, and aid in cooking.


Which is, in my opinion, essentially the same reason why one would want oats and oat flour in one's taco seasoning mix: to bind the other ingredients to the meat better during cooking.

Here, this is the recipe we used to use when I was a kid (except now they're marketing the sauce as a tenderizer...that's new to me....):
http://www.frenchs.com/recipe/simply-better-burgers-RE1683.html
 
Sorry, Bob. We have an indoor grill, but it's electric, not charcoal. But, you know, when you get tired of frying them....


Phantom Wolf, I had meant to say in my earlier post to you that your having added oats to your ground beef patties gave me the idea for suggesting Worcestershire sauce. You see, oats, as we all now know, are a binder. When you pan-fry hamburger patties with the sauce, it tends to cook out a bit, gets smoky, pops and crackles because it gets too hot, and so on. But when you mentioned the oats, I thought perhaps those might help bind the sauce to the meat better, and aid in cooking.


Which is, in my opinion, essentially the same reason why one would want oats and oat flour in one's taco seasoning mix: to bind the other ingredients to the meat better during cooking.

Here, this is the recipe we used to use when I was a kid (except now they're marketing the sauce as a tenderizer...that's new to me....):
http://www.frenchs.com/recipe/simply-better-burgers-RE1683.html
Worcestershire has always been a popular ingredient in marinades specifically because of it's flavor and tenderizing (acidic) value.


No indoor grill for us :( One of these days, when I have my own house with a gas kitchen and room for a viking range...


And I agree that the oats are included for binding and moisture retention. Besides, as Phantom pointed out, oats have a specific flavor all their own (think oatmeal without butter/sugar, definitely a unique flavor). I'm surprised that oats are used, but not why they're used, if that makes sense. If not oats, then some other grain would be used, oats just has the flavor/texture Taco Bell wants.
 
Oh, ours is a tabletop model that we got at Wal-Mart for $20. GE, I believe, non-stick grill rack, very nice. We don't eat a lot of fried anymore, so we do chicken, chops, and burger on it. :)
 
I just tossed them in the frying pan with some nice hot Rice Bran oil, come up pretty good.
 
After playing with the worcestershire sauce in your burgers, you might swap it out for soy sauce or teriyaki sauce for some different flavors. :D


Oooooh...teriyaki bacon cheeseburger... :drool:


starting by frying the bacon in a little teriyaki sauce...
 
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