Planned Parenthood Aids Pimp's Underage Sex Ring

[TraneWreck]

Except, of course, that physical injuries are quite different from pregnancy. In the case of pregnancy, all the woman must do is remain silent about the father, and no reporting requirements exist. The same is not true in the case of injuries that the hospital suspects are caused by domestic violence. So the two reporting requirements are fundamentally different, and your link proves nothing about the current situation. Furthermore, it's essentially an opinion piece. There is no actual data presented.

If the child is underaged, the act that made her pregnant is a strict liability crime. You're just wrong on that count.

They discuss the issue with data in the article.

No, TW. I would have thought you'd be smart enough to figure this out, but if the father is the same age, then there is no felony, and there is no requirement to report. That's why in the 2008 videos, they make a point of not only telling the PP staff the girl's age was 13, but also the father's age was 31. Without that info, there is no reporting requirement. And the PP staff in at least one case knew this, because she says that she didn't hear the age and doesn't want to know the age. She's breaking the law, and trying to cover her ass about it.

Provide a link, I honestly don't know what you're talking about.

They DIDN'T focus on her health. They focused on giving her an abortion. Whatever overlap there might be, those two things sure as hell aren't the same. If they had focused on her health, she might still be alive. So don't give me this **** about abortion being equal to caring for someone. Even when it's the right choice, it sure as hell isn't the same thing.

Abortion is a women's health issue.

As for your example, every system will result in unfortunate situations. Nothing is perfect. I have absolutely no data on this case you've brought up, and therefore cannot say anything about it.

It certainly isn't a good way to make a claim about a broad policy.

No, I'm not talking about that case. While those conversations were distasteful, none of them involved breaking the law. I'm talking about the 2008 Mona Lisa Project tapes. Your link doesn't address the contents of those tapes in any way. In fact, one could read that page and not even know such tapes were even made - is that what happened with you? Perhaps you should ponder why mention of the 2008 video tapes is absent.

Here are the tapes:
https://liveaction.org/mona-lisa/bloomington-in

This is ********. It's a bunch of workers trying to help girls in need. First, given her propensity for maliciously editing videos, I'm not taking any of those at face value. Second, they're smearing low level workers that are trying to help desperate girls.

This is just insulting nonsense. I am honestly astonished that you view this feces as something worthwhile.

All your link does is engage in an ad hominem attack against Rose.

It shows that she's an anti-choice zealot willing to lie and cheat to smear her opponent. That doesn't prove any of her claims false, but it does show what a horrible human being she is.

Except at Planned Parenthood, evidently.

Glib nonsense. Given how emotional you became over the father-daughters case you were close to, it amazes me that you're so dismissive of people who have to deal with dozens of such cases a week.

I know they reported it this time. I said that in my very first post. And they did so because they learned from being burned by their failures in 2008.

Second, You're just being glib about an issue that tortures endless health care workers every day of their life. This is not an easy decision.

Bull. It's a VERY easy decision: you follow the law. End of story.

Yeah, that's a lame attempt at shifting the burden of personal ethics to the state. When you're actually confronted with these sorts of situations, it becomes much more difficult. Your brazen dismissal of people on the front lines of these issues is pathetic.

It cracks me up that you get so emotional about the case you were close to, then spin on a dime to be so glib about people who deal with that **** for a living.

We're not talking about parental notification. We're talking about notifying the cops. Parental notification can be avoided when necessary with a judicial bypass.

Haha. How ironic. The right wing is up in arms about the "bypass" bit. They think the woman in the second video should be fired for mentioning it. Here's one of endless examples:

“One again, the sting operation has Planned Parenthood officials willing to bend over backwards to get abortions for the victimized girls and, in this case, bragging about how they can undermine the judicial bypass provision in the Virginia parental notification law to get a judge to approve the secret abortions on the sex slaves.”

http://www.examiner.com/conservativ...es-planned-parenthood-counseling-another-pimp

So yes, we're talking about parental notification as well as notification to authorities.

But the issue with pregnant women being murdered is not unique to situations of parental notification. Observe:

Abused woman goes to PP after being raped. PP workers notice bruises, have to report to police. Police run background check on victim, obtain her address. They go to the home and interrogate the person there. It turns out to be a friend of the abuser. The abuser isn't around. The friend tells the abuser that the cops are after him...

I wish this sort of thing was a rare occurance.

You seem to be under the impression that in the absence of such a requirement, they actually go through a thorough analysis to determine this. But they don't. They didn't. Nor should they have to.

Do you have any evidence to support that claim?

Even if true, replacing mandatory reporting with discretionary reporting coupled with training would be more effective. Even better would be hiring more social workers that are uniquely trained on such issues, freeing the medical professionals to just deal with health issues.

Indeed: give them an unambiguous rule they can follow, and let someone else who can actually spend time and effort making an informed judgment call handle the situation. In other words, the cops.

Again, then abusers don't allow their victims to go to clinics. Victims become reluctant to seek medical care because it means they will be involved in a court case.

You'd be amazed at how powerful the impulse to stay out of court procedings actual is. Just trying to find witnesses is an AMAZING ordeal, much less getting victims to come forward.

You know whose job that is? The cops. That's their job. It is not the job of the health care providers. Hell, you even said that you don't want them to be dealing with stuff that isn't their job. Then you turn around and try to saddle them with the job anyways.

This is a poor understanding of my argument. I would rather they be liberated from these decisions completely. The sting videos show, however, that when people are actually working on the front lines of these issues, they realize that there are endless problems caused by mandatory reporting laws. That's why these workers develop ways around the system.

The 2008 "sting" obviously forced PP to eliminate any discretion among their employees. I would enjoy you providing evidence that this is a good thing.

But this is the important point and why the information you dismissed as an ad hom earlier is so important: the people making these videos don't give a **** about women's health, they want to eliminate abortions.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'm still waiting on Deepatrax to admit that his hopeful outcome from this situation is defunding/shutdown of PP in the style of the ACORN debacle.

Hopefully the Breitbart power to destroy innocent social welfare groups and associated individuals was dissipated with the Shirley Sherrod fraud.

And more people are familiar with Planned Parenthood than were familiar with ACORN. It was easy to demonize ACORN and the demonizing started with the lie that "voter registration fraud" (which occurred when low income workers were paid by the name so filled out registration forms with fake names) was the same as "vote fraud". That lie was already extensively exploited by the Repubs before O'Keefe pulled his little scam. ACORN was a pre-primed target.

The anti-abortion activists on their own don't provide a big enough force currently to bring down Planned Parenthood. They've tried before and failed.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Looks like they've learned something from their previous failures to follow the law and report cases of statutory rape.

As a health care provider I find this to be an offensive charge. We have an obligation to do the right thing by our patients, not to do the right thing according to a rapid anti-abortion prosecuting attorney.

 

[Travis]

How much you want to bet that the slime behind this picked the scenario with there being more girls in the sex ring because they figured someone would want to help the other girls and do what this well meaning woman did?

 

[BenBurch]

As a health care provider I find this to be an offensive charge. We have an obligation to do the right thing by our patients, not to do the right thing according to a rapid anti-abortion prosecuting attorney.

And that obligation is not legally optional in most cases.

 

[Ziggurat]

As a health care provider I find this to be an offensive charge. We have an obligation to do the right thing by our patients, not to do the right thing according to a rapid anti-abortion prosecuting attorney.

No, skeptic ginger. You have the exact same obligation that everyone has: you have an obligation to follow the law. As a citzen, I find it offensive that you think your position gives you some special privilege to ignore the laws you don't like. I also wonder if you would be willing to tell your patients or your employer that you think obeying the law is optional. I suspect you don't really have the courage of your convictions on this point.

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

No, skeptic ginger. You have the exact same obligation that everyone has: you have an obligation to follow the law. As a citzen, I find it offensive that you think your position gives you some special privilege to ignore the laws you don't like. I also wonder if you would be willing to tell your patients or your employer that you think obeying the law is optional. I suspect you don't really have the courage of your convictions on this point.

The law is never wrong. THe law is always right. HE IS THE LAW.

 

[jayh]

More on the awful human being behind these absurd, vicious videos:

http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/comments/lila_rose_big_time_liar_and_all_around_horrible_person/

Again, sorry I can't include excerpts. The blog won't let me highlight passages to copy/paste.

Use Mozilla with Noscript.

 

[Travis]

No, skeptic ginger. You have the exact same obligation that everyone has: you have an obligation to follow the law. As a citzen, I find it offensive that you think your position gives you some special privilege to ignore the laws you don't like. I also wonder if you would be willing to tell your patients or your employer that you think obeying the law is optional. I suspect you don't really have the courage of your convictions on this point.

Got any evidence any law was broken in the video?

 

[tyr_13]

Got any evidence any law was broken in the video?

He's talking about something that PP supposedly got in trouble for in the past as evidence that it's the reason they're being so good now, as opposed to them really not wanting to aid in an under age sex ring.

I.E. They're only being decent humans because they've been punished before.

 

[Emet]

Latest Lila Rose Video Ends Her Credibility Once And For All
February 04, 2011 1:57 pm ET by Jeremy Holden

The video shows a Planned Parenthood employee alone in a room with a man who claims to be a sex worker who is looking for advice on obtaining testing and abortion for girls he manages, some of whom are as young as 13. The Planned Parenthood employee advises him that "teens can obviously be a separate issue. I mean, there's parental consent in the state of Virginia, and there's obviously statutory rape as far as that goes." Later, she reiterates the point:

For abortion, they need a photo ID, and if they are minors, they need parental consent. And, like I said, if you bring them to any clinic and they're, like you said, 13 or 14, there's laws, you know, that some things have to be reported.
Having been exposed as a fraud at her effort, Rose is now limping into the weekend by releasing anything - anything at all - to keep her bogus smear alive.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201102040024

 

[tyr_13]

He's talking about something that PP supposedly got in trouble for in the past as evidence that it's the reason they're being so good now, as opposed to them really not wanting to aid in an under age sex ring.

I.E. They're only being decent humans because they've been punished before.

Sorry, that isn't exactly right. Strike 'only'. It's a contributing factor in the argument presented earlier.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

For that matter, by the argument presented here, priests should be obligated to report any crimes heard in confessional instead of offering absolution. Perhaps a video investigation is in order.

I find it unfortunate, health care professionals are often not allowed any discretion regarding what's best for the patient, but attorneys get to keep silent about serial murderers they may be aware of, so the murderer can get fair legal representation.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Here is a good opinion piece on the matter.

http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/please_young_conservatives_please_start_fcking_while_sober/

(For some reason I can't copy/paste excerpts from that blog)

Lots of sites are copy protected. But I'm not having trouble with this site:

As Jodi Jacobson notes, this video actually proves that the nurse at the Planned Parenthood was doing her job. She immediately went to her supervisors after the hoaxers left and alerted them to the potential underage prostitution. The video doesn’t mention this, making Rose and her comrades big fat [rule 10] lying sacks of [rule 10].

Excuse the [rule 10s], the words are in the quote.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

No, that is not all you do. You make sure the people most likely to be confided in help stopping the crimes from happening again. Even knowing that the crimes may be reported, people will still go to organizations like Planned Parenthood for help. In some cases, they may have no choice.

In the end, it does constitute a moral dilemma. Do you think the judgement of which crimes should be reported or not should be left to Planned Parenthood? Or do you think they should be prevented from reporting crimes at all?

Do you have any evidence supporting this opinion or is it just what seems logical to you? Because I'm pretty sure 14 yr old girls having sex with 15 yr old boys is an extremely common thing. Yet naive legislators write laws that make such common teen behaviors crimes when there are many better approaches.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Certainly. The question is how much should be sacrificed to extend that duty to as many people as possible. As long as they are encouraged to report crimes, people who are afraid or ashamed may avoid seeking help there. But they are also in a unique position to report the crimes of victims who do seek help despite this.

Live Action's position, that it would be better if they were not there to provide medical help or report crimes, seems outright ridiculous.

You have an erroneous view of the reality of delivering health care. I suggest your view has been distorted by the propaganda campaign against Planned Parenthood and other womens' health care workers the anti-choice extremists think trashing will help achieve some naive goal.

Health care workers readily report infectious diseases and potential child and other domestic abuse. Why wouldn't we?

But there is more than a little evidence one sometimes has to balance the risks and benefits of decisions if the decision could prevent a child from seeking health care. You are talking about highly educated very experienced health care workers making professional decisions. But ignorant people with their little causes think they can make better decisions.

So these ignorant people show up at town hall meetings screaming at legislators to not get between people and their doctors. But some of those same people are just as easily led by the nose to show up at state legislation sessions lobbying to get other people they've never met and health care professions who do know what they are doing to follow some uneducated misguided creep's idea of not sinning.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I agree. That's pretty much my stance on it. They are in a unique and difficult circumstance--how to provide care and report criminal activity without driving away the victims.

A decision best made by an educated experienced professional and not by a one size fits all law that an uneducated inexperienced non-professional thinks is needed.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

.
Yes, but when the need is due to abuse, then it must be reported.

And you know for a fact that is true in every single case without exception ever? Are you also imagining health care workers have some agenda to protect abusers? Seriously? Are we supposedly ignorant and you know better?

How often do you think abuse is not reported by health care workers?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Which is interesting--not trying to start a political argument here, I genuinely find this interesting--since you would assume that doctor-patient privilege would extend to an organization that provides medical services. I'm ignorant of the law on this--is it because it's a clinic?

Here's a summary of the law. And I should add that the vast majority of the time the law is reasonable and health care workers are more than willing to make reports. I've been threatened for reporting abuse as well, so it isn't without risk.

When I was Googling the claim PP had broken the law by not reporting statutory rape I found more than 3 pages of right wing echo chamber blogs repeating the charges again and again. I had to change the search criteria to find an actual news report.

This is so incredibly destructive and malicious. These zealots have created a totally false image of PP.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

According to the law, it is the job of the health care provider. It is a legal obligation.



That's purely speculation on your part. If they don't want the person raping them to get caught, all they have to do is either lie (Planned Parenthood is not obligated to investigate) or just not say anything. Do you have any actual evidence that reporting requirements do more harm than good?



And simply letting the rape continue... that's such a better solution.

There's one case of statutory rape I'm personally familiar with. A father raped two of his daughters, repeatedly. Got them pregnant, too. They had abortions. He was never caught. They're grown up now, both had severely screwed up personal lives, and one of them eventually committed suicide. The fact that they could get essentially no-questions-asked abortions prolonged the abuse, it didn't "solve" anything. "Medical help" was no real help at all.



It would be illegal for you to give this information to the prosecutor, even though doing so could help insure that a guilty person gets punished for their crimes. You recognize that it's unacceptable for YOU to break the law for purposes of expediency. But you want Planned Parenthood to be able to do so?



Which is why it should outrage you that Planned Parenthood flagrantly violated the legal process. Curiously, it doesn't.



They aren't. They only report. They do not investigate, they do not prosecute. That in no way makes them law enforcement officials.



What perverse morality thinks it's better to just let a girl continue to be raped?

Talk about PURE SPECULATION. That's all you're doing, that and you don't have a clue about the actual facts because you drink the right wing koolaide all the time.



The majority of health care providers at PP are nurse practitioners. What evidence do you have besides a couple of distorted stories on the right wing blogs that these nurse practitioners just let kids continue to be raped? How stupid does a person have to be to believe such garbage!


I need a thread break. The lies in this thread are too ignorant and disgusting to take all in one sitting.