You will not know if you observe building sway or leaning. If the building is leaning towards your vantage point you might get a perfect azimuth but the building already fall right down on your head.
You will not know if you observe building sway or leaning. If the building is leaning towards your vantage point you might get a perfect azimuth but the building already fall right down on your head.
No question, you won't remember ALL the names but if you are the one who e.g. has to stop rescue effords then you should remember one particular name.
otherwise:
Larry: Who told you to pull the men out?
Firechief: Oh, I guess his name was Jim.
Go back to post 726 and tell me what you see.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6826429&postcount=726
Can you link me your "numerous times show"?
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
Or:
Larry: Who told you to pull the men out?
Firechief: Some guy from the NYC Department of Buildings, I saw his ID and it checked out fine, but by the time I'd finished issuing the orders and saving my men's lives I'd forgotten his name. Why, was it important?
Dave
triforcharity
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It doesn't matter who told him (the chief) the information. Since it was ULTIMATELY the fire chief's call, he could have answered the bum on the corner and it would have been sufficient.
You're not getting it either. It. Doesn't. Matter.
Go to 38:19. Richard Rotanz saw the upper 20 floors "inferno". Funny, but the BBC shows at the same time that there was no inferno at the upper 20 floors. You see, the official Easter bunny exists.
I don't want to link the article a 3rd time but you can go back. Prior to WTC2 collapse no one believed in any collapse but 7 was completely evacuated, no?
What didn't happen? The 20-floor inferno? No, it didn't happen. Someone warned the mayor? That happened. A firechief warned the mayor? The firechiefs say no.
Look at the photographs + read the NIST report. That's all you need.
Yes, that's right but you need some zero for your azimuth at different elevations and you still cannot see a leaning towards you or away from your position. Therefore you need to triangulate it.Unless you observe for more than two seconds at a time.
Respectfully,
Myriad
http://cedb.asce.org/cgi/WWWdisplay.cgi?18318
triforcharity
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Sure.
Here, Here I also added a very simple table for his reading enjoyment Here, And here
They're links that you must click on. Have fun.
One transit won't help. Already explained.
What's your problem with Mark Bingham? Some parody of a debunker brought up the phone calls. I just signalized that I would join him in another thread about the phone calls if he wants to discuss it.
Larry's Insurance: Who told you to pull the men out?
Firechief: Some guy who looked like an engineer.
Larry's Insurance: Did you saw his ID?
Firechief: No, but he was right on the money.
Sabretooth
No Ordinary Rabbit
You going to get to your point anytime soon?
I don't say that the decision was wrong. We know about that engineer from a firefighter. He clearly don't need to know who he is but someone should, no?
...but that engineer isn't my concern at all. It's just my opinion.
Read the OP.
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
Or, Firechief: Yes, I checked his ID and I remember it checked out fine, but I don't recall his name. If you contact the Buildings Department, they may be able to tell you who was on site at the time.
So, you think the insurance company would have asked difficult questions about the collapse of WTC7 before paying out, do you? Well, there you are. They must have discovered the massive conspiracy, which is why Silverstein never received any insurance payments. Oh, wait...
Or maybe the people working for the insurance company are sane, and understand that the building was evacuated, and there wasn't much point the firemen risking their lives trying to fight the fires when they didn't even have a decent water supply to do it with. And maybe they realised that the subsequent collapse justified the decision retrospectively, no matter who made it.
Dave
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
We already did, and pointed out that you were wrong. NIST didn't time the beginning of the fall from the time the screenwall began to move; they timed it from the time the roofline began to move, which they could see because the East penthouse had fallen from sight before that time. And when we posted that refutation of your assertion that NIST's start time was too early, femr2 then helpfully pointed out that small movements of the building were visible long before that, and didn't seem to notice that he was advancing an even stronger counter-argument against your position.
So, while some people should perhaps re-read the OP, could I suggest that you re-read the entire thread, and pay attention this time?
Dave
tsig
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Use two.
No one needs to triangulate it because no one cares about quantitative measurements in a situation like that. The relevant information is whether there is displacement, the approximate magnitude, and whether (and at approximately what rate) it is increasing.
Here is a conversation you will never hear firefighters have:
"Chief, the lean is still increasing! We're at eight inches now."
"What direction?"
"We triangulated it, and the trend is toward the west-southwest."
"Okay, thanks. Move everybody over to the east-northeast side where they'll be safe."
Here's how to do it in real life: put one (1) transit close to the building, aimed 75 degrees or so upward with the cross hairs on a particular recognizable spot. (This is also convenient because it means the transit will be within the secured operations area, rather than sending personnel hundreds of yards away to place it and check it.) Periodically, check the view to see if the aim point has moved in any direction in the view, and by about how much.
Now, if the building is leaning directly toward the transit and happens to also be slumping downward just the right amount at the same time you might miss it! Fortunately buildings will lean long before they slump down, unless they're already falling and it's too late to do anything about it.
The real comic irony here is that you're expecting firefighters, having placed multiple transits in precisely measured locations, to then track the movements of building features (either measuring the movement within the transits' fields of view or measuring the angular changes needed to re-aim the cross hairs), and then perform the calculations to determine the true building feature movement in three dimensions. All in real time in the midst of intense activity and danger at the fire scene. And yet of the Truthers who have made all sorts of claims about measuring building movements at the start of the collapses, not one has been able to perform those same sorts of 3-D triangulation measurements and calculations, given safe armchairs to work from, hundreds of supposedly supportive engineers to consult with, and years of time!
I suppose that expecting firefighters to do things in minutes that no Truther can learn how to do in years at least shows that you hold them in high esteem. But it might help to remember that firefighters carry axes, not scalpels.
Respectfully,
Myriad