Taco Bell sued

[BobTheDonkey]

lol, why would the USDA be different from the FDA? Because you want them to? Unreal.

USDA- "ground beef"- "consist of chopped fresh and/or frozen beef with or without seasoning and without the addition of beef fat as such, shall not contain more than 30 percent fat, and shall not contain added water, phosphates, binders, or extenders."

And you have evidence that the ground beef TB buys doesn't meet this requirement?

lol, there's a joke in their but I'm not touching it. It's clearly Taco Bell's liability, the supplier calls it correctly "taco meat filling", Taco Bell then claims it's "seasoned ground beef".

It isn't!!! It's "taco meat filling"! It says so on the label!!!

Evidence?

 

[Furcifer]

And you have evidence that the ground beef TB buys doesn't meet this requirement?

Wow, just wow. Taco Bell doesn't buy "ground beef", they buy "taco meat filling".

Evidence?

Go to www.google.com and type "image taco bell meat filling label" and press "enter".

Very easy to use, even for children.

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2011/01/taco-meat.jpg

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Wow, just wow. Taco Bell doesn't buy "ground beef", they buy "taco meat filling".




Go to www.google.com and type "image taco bell meat filling label" and press "enter".

Very easy to use, even for children.

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2011/01/taco-meat.jpg

Ok, so the best you've got is an undated package labeled "taco meat filling" but nothing further about what the break down of the taco meat filling is? If I were the Judge, I'd laugh you out of my courtroom.

Do you have any evidence that Taco Bell is falsely advertising the ingredients in it's seasoned ground beef?

 

[Furcifer]

Ok, so the best you've got is an undated package labeled "taco meat filling" but nothing further about what the break down of the taco meat filling is? If I were the Judge, I'd laugh you out of my courtroom.

lmfao, could you please show me an ingredients list with a date on it? I have about 100 items in my house, not a single one with a date on it, your honour.

Do you have any evidence that Taco Bell is falsely advertising the ingredients in it's seasoned ground beef?

lmfao, are you serious? The product descriptions from the Taco Bell website have been quoted numerous times, so has the evidence presented in the trial which clearly indicates "seasoned ground beef" is being used.

Shall I have someone from Taco Bell call you, your honour

 

[BobTheDonkey]

lmfao, could you please show me an ingredients list with a date on it? I have about 100 items in my house, not a single one with a date on it, your honour.




lmfao, are you serious? The product descriptions from the Taco Bell website have been quoted numerous times, so has the evidence presented in the trial which clearly indicates "seasoned ground beef" is being used.

Shall I have someone from Taco Bell call you, your honour

Ok, does the label "taco meat filling" preclude the use of "seasoned ground beef"? And if so, could you show your evidence?

 

[Furcifer]

Ok, does the label "taco meat filling" preclude the use of "seasoned ground beef"? And if so, could you show your evidence?

OK, does the label "taco meat filling" preclude the use of "dandruff control shampoo"? And if so could you show your evidence?

 

[BobTheDonkey]

OK, does the label "taco meat filling" preclude the use of "dandruff control shampoo"? And if so could you show your evidence?

Nice dodge, but that's not quite the same realm here.

Taco meat filling has ground beef in it, right? In fact, as we've seen in this thread, the label has certain requirements for how much of the filling must be ground beef. I didn't see where there were maximum limits to how much ground beef could be included, only a minimum requirement, to qualify for the label of "Taco Meat Filling" in advertising.

Therefore, taco meat filling must only be >40% ground beef. There is no dichotomy between whether it's seasoned ground beef or taco meat filling - it's all the same as far as the ingredients matching the minimum requirements (because if they didn't, you'd have taco flavored chili). I already went over the maths involved with the ingredient list for the Seasoned Ground Beef - a set of maths that does not preclude Taco Bell from also labeling their Seasoned Ground Beef as Taco Meat Filling.

Also note that even if there was insufficient ground beef in the Taco Meat Filling, as Taco Bell does not advertise their tacos as having "Taco Meat Filling" but rather "Ground Beef", the rules for the Taco Meat Filling are inapplicable.


So, again, I ask if you have evidence of the make up of the meat filling in Taco Bell's tacos?

 

[Andrew Wiggin]

I have a relatively simple and straightforward approach I use to ferret out the truth when someone sues a company for something like this.

First, is this an easily testable claim.

Second, does the company continue to stand by their product, or do they engage in deflection tactics, like finding someone in the supply chain to throw under the bus or offering a settlement with nondisclosure.

In this case, I could walk into a taco bell any time I wanted to, and get a sample of taco meat, by the simple and inexpensive method called 'buying a taco'. I could then take my sample home and test it in any manner my heart desired. So could anyone else who wanted to. Easily testable claim; check.

I see on the news that taco bell is fighting this one, and standing by their recipe. No one is blathering on about being betrayed by traitors in the meat supply industry, and if there were buyoffs this would have quietly gone away. Lack of deflection tactics; check.

Given that, I think it's much more likely that the folks who brought this suit are on a fishing expedition.

 

[not daSkeptic]

Taco Bell doesn't buy "ground beef", they buy "taco meat filling".

From whom do they buy it?

 

[Furcifer]

Nice dodge, but that's not quite the same realm here.

It's not a dodge, it's to make you think about how silly the question is.

Taco meat filling has ground beef in it, right?

No, "ground beef" is a standardized elementary form of cow. It is beef and fat run through a grinder, usually twice to achieve the proper texture, although I'm sure modern machinery for mass production is a once through operation.

Taco meat filling is a mystery. I can only speculate on how it's made. It may or may not start with "ground beef". I suppose it really depends on how it goes through the grinder. You could say summer sausage has ground beef in it but that's misleading because it doesn't have "ground beef" in it.

Do you see the importance of the quotations around "ground beef"? It's to differentiate it from ground beef. Because you have a mental image of what "ground beef" is, the stuff you get at the supermarket to brown and serve or make hamburgers or meatloaf out of. Or even taco filling.

So there's no way for me to know if taco filling has ground beef or "ground beef" in it. All I can tell you is what Taco Bell serves in their tacos is not seasoned "ground beef". That's why I'm saying the lawsuit is right in these regards and Taco Bell must stop using "seasoned ground beef" in their ads and descriptions because it is misleading.

If Taco Bell is allowed to call their mixture "ground beef" the whole standard of what is "ground beef" becomes useless. Seeing as "ground beef" represents 60% of a $6 Billion a year market I don't see that happening.


I see your point but I think it relies on a rather loose interpretation of what ground beef is.

 

[Furcifer]

From whom do they buy it?

I imagine like most chains they contract several suppliers to provide them their "recipe", but from what I've read it's Tyson.

 

[Furcifer]

Given that, I think it's much more likely that the folks who brought this suit are on a fishing expedition.

Fishing for what though? The class action seeks for them to simply stop calling it "ground beef". The only monetary "gain" is court costs.

It might just be a lawyer trying to get some free publicity, but Taco Bell seems to be befitting from the exposure, more so than the lawyer might for court costs.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

It's not a dodge, it's to make you think about how silly the question is.



No, "ground beef" is a standardized elementary form of cow. It is beef and fat run through a grinder, usually twice to achieve the proper texture, although I'm sure modern machinery for mass production is a once through operation.

Taco meat filling is a mystery. I can only speculate on how it's made. It may or may not start with "ground beef". I suppose it really depends on how it goes through the grinder. You could say summer sausage has ground beef in it but that's misleading because it doesn't have "ground beef" in it.

Do you see the importance of the quotations around "ground beef"? It's to differentiate it from ground beef. Because you have a mental image of what "ground beef" is, the stuff you get at the supermarket to brown and serve or make hamburgers or meatloaf out of. Or even taco filling.

So there's no way for me to know if taco filling has ground beef or "ground beef" in it. All I can tell you is what Taco Bell serves in their tacos is not seasoned "ground beef". That's why I'm saying the lawsuit is right in these regards and Taco Bell must stop using "seasoned ground beef" in their ads and descriptions because it is misleading.

If Taco Bell is allowed to call their mixture "ground beef" the whole standard of what is "ground beef" becomes useless. Seeing as "ground beef" represents 60% of a $6 Billion a year market I don't see that happening.


I see your point but I think it relies on a rather loose interpretation of what ground beef is.

So you admit that you don't know how much ground beef is in Taco Bell's seasoned ground beef, but that doesn't matter, TB should just not call it "seasoned ground beef" because it might not be beefy enough?

Do you have any evidence that what Taco Bell is doing is incorrect labeling of their ingredients? No? Didn't think so.


Taco Bell states that their seasoned ground beef is mostly ground beef (by volume, given the ingredients list). It is therefore not illegal for them to call it seasoned ground beef - that's precisely what it is: ground beef that has been seasoned. Are you so obtuse that you cannot see this or are you here just to juice the piglet?

 

[Furcifer]

Do you have any evidence that what Taco Bell is doing is incorrect labeling of their ingredients? No? Didn't think so.

You're not thinking at all. Tyson or the supplier labels the product correctly as "taco meat filling", Taco Bell doesn't label anything so much as advertise it as "seasoned ground beef". So obviously there no evidence of them labeling it incorrectly, that isn't what they are being charged with.

Taco Bell states that their seasoned ground beef is mostly ground beef (by volume, given the ingredients list).

Yes but is it "ground beef" or ground beef? This is the question you don't seem to have yet grasped.

It is therefore not illegal for them to call it seasoned ground beef - that's precisely what it is: ground beef that has been seasoned.

So are meat balls, shall we call meat balls seasoned ground beef too? So are sausages, should we call them seasoned ground beef? Hamburgers, seasoned ground beef. Let's call everything with seasoned ground beef in it seasoned ground beef. That's great logic.

Are you so obtuse that you cannot see this or are you here just to juice the piglet?

Are you serious or do you not understand how magnets work?

 

[JoelKatz]

It's clearly Taco Bell's liability, the supplier calls it correctly "taco meat filling", Taco Bell then claims it's "seasoned ground beef".

It isn't!!! It's "taco meat filling"! It says so on the label!!!

How is this taco meat filling made? Do they not start with ground beef? Do they not then add a mix to the meat that seasons it? Why is it not "seasoned ground beef"?

The problem with the legal argument is that Taco Bell does not claim this is ground beef. If you accepted that argument, it would be fraud if Taco Bell merely cooked the ground beef in a pan with a teaspoon of oil or if they added water to it in the cooking process. That obviously can't be right.

The problem with the deception/fraud argument is that it cannot be made with a straight face. Everyone understands that this is a taco filling. It is about 88% beef. Such products almost always contain additives such as texture modifiers, water, and extenders. When I make my own taco filling, I add maltodextrin, among other things, for texture. I'd be surprised if my own mix was more than 88% beef.

 

[Aepervius]

Interesting thread. All I have to say is : do they meet the local food standard law definition for the ingredient they use ? If yes, do they properly advertise them as defined by the standard ? If both are yes this is a non issue. If one is no, TB will have to pay money to some lawyer (which will get more rich) change their ads, and nothing will change for the rest of us.

 

[Furcifer]

The problem with the legal argument is that Taco Bell does not claim this is ground beef.

Maybe you missed the lawsuit and the links to the Taco Bell website? Because they do advertise this as "ground beef". That's the whole issue afaic. I don't really see any problem with calling it "seasoned beef", but some may find that misleading due to the fillers. I just know it isn't ground beef, I never thought it was, nor did anyone I ever met think it was ground beef. It wasn't until recently that I ever thought about it critically. Now that I have I think they are misleading in saying they have "seasoned ground beef".

If you accepted that argument, it would be fraud if Taco Bell merely cooked the ground beef in a pan with a teaspoon of oil or if they added water to it in the cooking process. That obviously can't be right.

Taco Bell doesn't even cook it, they "prepare" it. It comes cooked in a big bag they boil and serve.

The problem with the deception/fraud argument is that it cannot be made with a straight face. Everyone understands that this is a taco filling. It is about 88% beef. Such products almost always contain additives such as texture modifiers, water, and extenders. When I make my own taco filling, I add maltodextrin, among other things, for texture. I'd be surprised if my own mix was more than 88% beef.

No what can't be said with a straight face it that Taco Bell serves ground beef. Everyone knows they don't, it's just that nobody ever challenged their claim.

What I find disturbing is their new spin, that regular ground beef tastes bland that's why they have their taco meat filling. That's BS, their taco filling is horrible. If they used seasoned ground beef it would be palatable.

 

[Furcifer]

Interesting thread. All I have to say is : do they meet the local food standard law definition for the ingredient they use ? If yes, do they properly advertise them as defined by the standard ? If both are yes this is a non issue. If one is no, TB will have to pay money to some lawyer (which will get more rich) change their ads, and nothing will change for the rest of us.

Technically they don't use ground beef, they use seasoned taco meat. The laws aren't really clear as to what they can advertise it as, but they know it's taco meat filling. What it is is free publicity. The worst case scenario is exactly that, they pay some lawyer for his time, change "seasoned ground beef" to "seasoned beef taco meat" in future ads, and be done with it. It's like a $30 million dollar ad campaign for about $100K. I wonder if there's still time for a Super Bowl ad?

 

[Emet]

Time for a little Lewis Black:

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/voracious/2011/02/dear_taco_bell_lewis_black_wan.php

 

[Hellbound]

I don't think anyone here would disagree that, if this woman is something other than the attention-ho she appears to be and there is actually only 36% meat, then yes, TB is guilty of false advertising.

However, unlike some people here, most of us do NOT think that TB is guilty, period, because they use the term "seasoned ground beef" to describe their filling and it contains more than just beef.

And if what TB says is true, and the filling is 88% beef, then this woman has NO case.

The law suit is about whether it has enough beef to be called beef. If 3body's asinine interpretation were remotely correct, there'd be no question at all, and TB would have to have the biggest idiots on the planet for corporate lawyers to even think about fighting it, because their own, self-published ingredients list shows it's not 100% beef.

Frankly, I'm not going to convict TB on the basis of one woman making one claim, with the only evidence being her word that "really, I had it tested".

The entier case will come down to a question of fact: how much beef is there. The disagreement in this thread is whether is has to be 100% (in which case TB has already lost, and their reaction to this as well as the lawsuit in general shouldn't even be a question, and there is the question of why such a flagrant and obvious violation of laws and regulations has gone on...I mean TB has had health inspections, and I find it hard to believe they'd miss, oh, the PUBLISHED IGREDIENT LIST), or whether (as is reasonable) a filling that is mostly beef can be non-misleadingly called seasoned ground beef.