WTC7 and the NIST free fall failure

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Accidentally no fire chief believed in any collapse at that time.
Accidentally the firefighter communication inside of WTC1 blew up without any reasonable cause.
Accidentally the firefighters who wanted to fight the fire in WTC7 were sent away - frustrated.

That's a lie, the chiefs' knew it would collapse sometime later in the day, they just didn't know when.

If it "blew up" please explain why noone, including Willie Rodriguez, was killed in a blast? You can't, can ya??

Of course they were frustrated cause the water mains going to the hydrants were broken due to 2 110 story buildings collapsing. They left it burn because of that & there's no way in hell you'll be able to understand that because you're not a firefighter.

 

[achimspok]

The fact that you're lying or completely incompetent (or both) doesn't help your arguments. That's pathetic.

We've had no planers, now we have 'no smokers'.

To demonstrate what horsemanure F2 is peddling, simply look at this video, which shows smoke pouring from not just the East face but also from the North.

These prevaricators would like to pretend that NONE of this smoke came from WTC 7. Really pathetic....



And a repost for the faint of thinking, complete with real flames coming from the windows! Wow, did those flames come from the other buildings as well, Mr. Liar?

Failed again. The first video shows the building shortly prior to the collapse.
The seconds video shows the early fire at 29/30 that died down prior 1pm.
Hence, it doesn't change any word I wrote.

 

[achimspok]

That's a lie, the chiefs' knew it would collapse sometime later in the day, they just didn't know when.

If it "blew up" please explain why noone, including Willie Rodriguez, was killed in a blast? You can't, can ya??

Of course they were frustrated cause the water mains going to the hydrants were broken due to 2 110 story buildings collapsing. They left it burn because of that & there's no way in hell you'll be able to understand that because you're not a firefighter.

How much time do you need to completely evacuate WTC7?
How could an explosion at floor 22 kill Willie Rodriguez?

 

[achimspok]

Umm, why is it I have a hard time believing that picture was taken AFTER the north tower fell? Because I doubt someone would be standing in the South tower wreckage with a perfectly clear view of building 7 between the collapse of the 2.

The source says 11:30am.

 

[GlennB]

Why don't you go back and re-analyse your wretched 'wake effects' but this time just get the wind in the correct direction? Remember how you had it wrong by the best part of 90° ??

Then tell us again how the 'wake effect' could pick up the smoke from WTC5+6 and spin it up to the SW corner of WTC7.

Here's a clue:

 

[achimspok]

Why don't you go back and re-analyse your wretched 'wake effects' but this time just get the wind in the correct direction? Remember how you had it wrong by the best part of 90° ??

Then tell us again how the 'wake effect' could pick up the smoke from WTC5+6 and spin it up to the SW corner of WTC7.

Here's a clue:

[qimg]http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg274/sap-guy/wtc7_rotated_N.jpg[/qimg]

I thought you have a clue since you critisized my first sloppy sketch. Now you obviously have no clue.

Read the historical data for wind direction.

Your west wind is wrong.

 

[GlennB]

I thought you have a clue since you critisized my first sloppy sketch. Now you obviously have no clue.
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6979/smokecl.gif

Read the historical data for wind direction.
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7033/histgraphall.gif

Your west wind is wrong.

I also criticised your new flashing graphic (still misaligned, btw) for having the blue line wrong for the S Manhattan area, but you ignored it. You've simply connected GZ with the bottommost part of the plume. Whether this is incompetence or dishonesty I don't know. At GZ the plume is running close to NW.

And I did not draw a W wind. Did you notice the diagram has a compass pointer (not aligned dead N in fact, but very close)? I drew in a NW wind.

Your 'analysis' of these events is so utterly riddled with the most obvious errors as to be worse than worthless. Why should anyone take you seriously?

 

[triforcharity]

The sophisticated USS Cole plot - an inflatable dinghy? - many simultaneous inflatable dinghies?

I notice your logical fallacy here. Do you see it?

The attack on the USS Cole was simple.

Take boat
Put explosive on boat
Drive into USS Cole

Quite simple.

Accidentally the Enron investigation paperwork burnt away at the floors 11,12,13 at WTC7.

OOPS! Enron guy STILL prosecuted, and company went under.

Accidentally all WTC7 evidence where shipped away.

OOPS!! All debris sent to Fresh Kills.

Accidentally WTC7 was completely evacuated prior to the collapses.

Nope, they did that on purpose.

Accidentally no fire chief believed in any collapse at that time.

OOPS! Wrong again. FDNY chiefs put a collapse zone around 7WTC around noon, then extended it farther out later in the day.

Accidentally the firefighter communication inside of WTC1 blew up without any reasonable cause.

Citation needed.

Communication inside 1&2 WTC were a problem for years. 9/11 was no exception to that rule.

Accidentally the firefighters who wanted to fight the fire in WTC7 were sent away - frustrated.

If true (which, I don't believe so, but maybe you have some evidence of ) would make perfect sense. LIFE before PROPERTY. Saving lives is the PRIMARY role of firefighters everywhere. Fighting fire is second.

 

[Sabretooth]

[qimg]http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/6533/noconcernofwtccollapsea.jpg[/qimg]
How much time do you need to completely evacuate WTC7?
How could an explosion at floor 22 kill Willie Rodriguez?

NSS.

But this article is talking about the towers...Chewy was referring to 7.

Way to completely miss the point.

 

[Senenmut]

That's a lie, the chiefs' knew it would collapse sometime later in the day, they just didn't know when.

If it "blew up" please explain why noone, including Willie Rodriguez, was killed in a blast? You can't, can ya??

Of course they were frustrated cause the water mains going to the hydrants were broken due to 2 110 story buildings collapsing. They left it burn because of that & there's no way in hell you'll be able to understand that because you're not a firefighter.

who told those fire chiefs around 1230 it would collapse in about 5 hrs and be "right on the money".

 

[Grizzly Bear]

who told those fire chiefs around 1230 it would collapse in about 5 hrs and be "right on the money".

As far as I'm concerned, unless you have anything to reveal that would suggest a nefarious plan in their concerns over a building's integrity you need to bring it up. Collapse - partial or otherwise - is a major concern to firefighters who often have to be in close proximity or inside them to fight the fires, and this building was according to numerous testimonies, showing visible signs of instability long before the collapse. If you believe their concerns were unfounded you should explain why.

 

[alienentity]

Accidentally the Enron investigation paperwork burnt away at the floors 11,12,13 at WTC7.
Accidentally all WTC7 evidence where shipped away.
Accidentally WTC7 was completely evacuated prior to the collapses.
Accidentally no fire chief believed in any collapse at that time.
Accidentally the firefighter communication inside of WTC1 blew up without any reasonable cause.
Accidentally the firefighters who wanted to fight the fire in WTC7 were sent away - frustrated.
Accidentally the FBI searched 3 years for the right Alomari until they stated that they have found Alomaris passport in Attas delayed baggage on 9/11. Of course, you will not find any image of that passport on the Internet. Why?
It's a hoax. It's a farce. It's a great big lie and at least 60% of the population on earth know it. You are the minority besides politics and the influence of actual politics on our view of history and historical events.

Our resident no-smoker also believes a number of other blatantly false things. Color me surprised... another truther bites the dust.

 

[achimspok]

I also criticised your new flashing graphic (still misaligned, btw) for having the blue line wrong for the S Manhattan area, but you ignored it. You've simply connected GZ with the bottommost part of the plume. Whether this is incompetence or dishonesty I don't know. At GZ the plume is running close to NW.

And I did not draw a W wind. Did you notice the diagram has a compass pointer (not aligned dead N in fact, but very close)? I drew in a NW wind.

Your 'analysis' of these events is so utterly riddled with the most obvious errors as to be worse than worthless. Why should anyone take you seriously?

Because your wind is wrong.
Maybe you want try to get your west wind working for this perspective.
Look at the historical data to be sure that at 9am the wind was most west for the day. And btw, we talk about afternoon.

 

[Senenmut]

As far as I'm concerned, unless you have anything to reveal that would suggest a nefarious plan in their concerns over a building's integrity you need to bring it up. Collapse - partial or otherwise - is a major concern to firefighters who often have to be in close proximity or inside them to fight the fires, and this building was according to numerous testimonies, showing visible signs of instability long before the collapse. If you believe their concerns were unfounded you should explain why.

that "engineer" from within the OEM not only predicted the collapse of wtc 1 and 2 but also 7. he has no name. no one has interviewed him. he didnt give an oral history like the fireman did. we havent seen the results of those "surveying instruments" Hayden speaks of here:

Hayden: "Well we had our special operations people set up surveying instruments to monitor and see if there was any movement of the building. We were concerned of the possibility of collapse of the building, and we had a discussion with one particular engineer and we asked him if we allowed it to burn could we anticipate a collapse and, if so, how soon. And it turned out that he was pretty much right on the money that he said in its current state you have about five hours."


notice he didnt say if 7 was moving or not when speaking of those surveying instruments. so yeah, this guy is very interesting especially since the cia and secret service were in that building.it would be hard to imagine that they didnt plug in maybe a few cia and secret service people into the OEM since it is the OFFICE OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT.

 

[GlennB]

Because your wind is wrong.
Maybe you want try to get your west wind working for this perspective.

Covering your incompetence by plain lying (for the second time) is pathetic. I have never said there was a W wind. Every line I've drawn on every street plan is from the NW.

The NW wind is shown in virtually every ground photo, vid and satellite shot from 9/11, including your satellite photo of the plume. The one where you choose to exaggerate the direction. The one where you have totally ignored the fact that you were plain wrong. Shall we review that?

Look at the historical data to be sure that at 9am the wind was most west for the day.

Yeah, you posted historical records. Shame you didn't tell us where they related to. [/quote]

And btw, we talk about afternoon.

Like this ????

And you seem to have abandoned any idea of analysing the wind vortices around WTC7 in light of your getting the wind direction wrong by ~90°.
Want to review your 'work' achimspok? Shall we review your erroneous graphic where you complained it was 'difficult to draw a line with a mouse'? Difficult for you, who has the graphics skills to overlay street plans with satellite photos, make them flash and draw in dead-straight lines (wrong lines) ?

 

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

How much time do you need to completely evacuate WTC7?
How could an explosion at floor 22 kill Willie Rodriguez?

Enough time to make sure every firefighter got to saftey.

You failed to say which floor you were talking about. That confuses people, much like you're confused about 9/11.

 

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

who told those fire chiefs around 1230 it would collapse in about 5 hrs and be "right on the money".

If you're not a firefighter then you don't understand anything.

The ISO (Incident Safety Officer) told the chiefs' that the building was unsafe. Which fireman said that it would fall "5 hrs and be right on the money"?

 

[Senenmut]

If you're not a firefighter then you don't understand anything.

The ISO (Incident Safety Officer) told the chiefs' that the building was unsafe.

i know how to read unlike you. ive traced it back to that "engineer" that said wtc 1 and 2 were going to collapse. where did you see that the ISO told the chiefs the buildings were going to collapse?

Which fireman said that it would fall "5 hrs and be right on the money"?

if you knew how to read, it wasnt a fireman but that "engineer" that said 5 hrs and was "right on the money."

 

[carlitos]

I'm sure "right on the money" is as accurate as the fake quote from William Colby in Senenmut's signature.

 

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

i know how to read unlike you. ive traced it back to that "engineer" that said wtc 1 and 2 were going to collapse. where did you see that the ISO told the chiefs the buildings were going to collapse?

if you knew how to read, it wasnt a fireman but that "engineer" that said 5 hrs and was "right on the money."

If you're implying that I'm "illiterate", then you my friend have idea what the hell you're talking about. I'm a firefighter, & the first line of defense against an unsound structure is to have someone with knowledge about a buildings integrity. The ISO's are those front line people who make sure that everyone gets out safely.

Here's a book about ISO's:

http://www.delmarlearning.com/browse_product_detail.aspx?catid=22594&isbn=1418009423

Description:

The best way to reduce firefighter injuries and deaths at incidents is the appointment of a well-prepared proactive Incident Safety Officer(ISO). This book primes aspiring and current Safety Officers to meet and exceed the specific job functions outlined in the 2007 Edition of NFPA 1521: Standard for Fire Department Safety Officer, as well as to aggressively pursue the operation of a highly efficient safety program. Extensively revised, the second edition of Fire Department Incident Safety Officer incorporates topics specifically focused on further developing and improving existing safety programs. Fundamental coverage of job functions for successful handling of incidents involving hazardous materials, technical rescue, wildland fire, and other disasters is accompanied by explanations of the critical skills required to be a proficient Safety Officer, including the processes of reading smoke, anticipating risk, predicting building collapse, and improving firefighter rehabilitation.

For the record, I'm qualified as an ISO.

You didn't say it was the "engineer", did you? Let's look:

who told those fire chiefs around 1230 it would collapse in about 5 hrs and be "right on the money".

Busted!