Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Onofarar]

Hi all,
Regarding Curatolo:
The next day, he arrived at his faithful piazza around 12:00pm and eventually around 1:30 or so saw the carabinieri pass, and the police, etc etc. and stated that he watched them at the scene including the CSI people dressed in the full-white suits.
When I 1st found this out and wrote of it,
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5986509#post5986509
I wondered how come Antonio did not get up off his park bench and head over to talk with the police. Since it had only happened last night, he could have told the police then that the dico buses were running last night and they maybe could have checked out this fact...

Strangely, 2 members of the pro-guilt community, Fulcanelli and Stilicho, did not agree with my thoughts on this, as you can see if you read past my link I posted.

I wonder something else though: With all of the police activity, surely 1 of them must have seen the local park bench bum hangin' out at his usual spot. Surely 1 of them deduced that it might be a good idea to ask him if he had seen or heard anything the night before when Meredith Kercher lost her life, don't you think?

Logical, organized and thorough are NOT three adjectives that come to mind when I think of the Perugia Police.

 

[Alt+F4]

I know your intention is to try and prove that Curatolo is a credible witness with all of this discussion about the buses. He has already been discredited. You will hear about this shortly as the appeal progresses. You should probably move on to another topic. You got this one wrong.

This coming from someone who still has the lie on his website that, "all the discos were closed that night".

 

[Chris C]

What you are taling about is a "dual criminality" restriction, and I checked it is the very first restriction in our extradition treaty. The 23 agents were convicted of kidnapping. I don't know that the US has ever declared that it is legal for the CIA to grab someone off the streets and fly them to Egypt for torture. If they did then yes, we have no obligation to extradite.

Though if any of those agents were in the military, we do have a military exemption. And we probably should get back on topic. Though, rather then constantly having to worry about moderation, I started a JREF offtopic thread on my board which people can use for any of these discussions. This is meant to just be a big bin for that sort of rollover topics, feel free to start using it.

Its a gray area because the Italian government authorized it. The CIA agents were not acting alone. Just like if the government decided to use the FBI to take someone into custody in America. The CIA in Italy assisted the Italian government.

 

[Chris C]

This coming from someone who still has the lie on his website that, "all the discos were closed that night".

Which discos were open?

 

[Withnail1969]

This coming from someone who still has the lie on his website that, "all the discos were closed that night".

The disco bus discussion is over. As you may have noticed upthread, people are just mocking you now. But by all means continue.

 

[Onofarar]

You clearly have significant comprehension problems in this area (coupled with major geographic difficulties), so conversation over.

Your "conversation" with Alt+F4 reminded me of a lenthy exchange in the first continuation thread between Halides1 and Fiona concerning Jason Gilder. Fiona insisted Gilder was a computer programmer not a DNA forensic expert. Halides1 citing numerous articles and papers proved pretty clearly that Gilder was an expert in the field of DNA evidence evaluation. Fiona just kept referring to his degree and college record as though actual knowledge learned in your career development had no relevence.
One of the best examples I have seen of pure bull-headedness I have every seen - at least until recently.

 

[Dan O.]

This coming from someone who still has the lie on his website that, "all the discos were closed that night".

What is the context in talking about these discos? Do you even know or are you intentionally arguing a non sequitur?

Look! Here is a disco that was open:
BIG Disco Night - Friday, November 2, 2007
This proves that it was a lie!!!!!​

ETA: Or perhaps you would rather believe what Barbie Nadeau wrote for CNN:

"Judge Hellman granted the defense's request to hear testimony from both the bus drivers and disco owners, who will testify that the discos were closed the night Kercher was murdered because of the religious All Saint's holiday."​

 

[Chris C]

This coming from someone who still has the lie on his website that, "all the discos were closed that night".

What is a disco? Be specific

 

[Alt+F4]

The disco bus discussion is over. As you may have noticed upthread, people are just mocking you now. But by all means continue.

I've proven my point to the lurkers and fencesitters.

1. The discos weren't all closed.
2. No one has presented any evidence that there were no buses in that area that night.

 

[Alt+F4]

What is a disco? Be specific

Domus describes itself as a disco. Are you suggesting they don't know what business they are in?

 

[Withnail1969]

I've proven my point to the lurkers and fencesitters.

1. The discos weren't all closed.
2. No one has presented any evidence that there were no buses in that area that night.

We know the discos weren't all closed. Bruce Fisher was presumably referring to the only discos of any relevance to this discussion, the out-of-town discos.

Nobody needs to prove there weren't any buses in the area that night. Where did you get the idea that they do?

 

[Onofarar]

See its an extradition treaty. For someone to be extradited it has to be a crime in both countries. If our government views what they did as not being a crime, they dont have to extradite them. They can absentee convict all they want. If the US government rules they committed no crime, then they dont have to extradite them.

Chris,
Technically, in this case, it is not whether there has been a crime committed by whether a conviction was properly obtained. The CIA agrents in question were charged with a crime - maybe numerous ones, but for simplicity's sake I will focus on kidnapping. It is a crime in both countries. Why then did the USA not extradite the agents?
Because the CONVICTION was invalid. In the USA a defendant has the basic right to confront his/her accuser in the court at trial. In abstentia trials are not allowed (a defendant may be disruptive in court and be removed but his legal representative remains and the trial continues). In this case, the Italian "conviction" was not a conviction within the meaning of US law and precedent - therefore the extradiction request was ignored.

 

[Katody Matrass]

Domus describes itself as a disco. Are you suggesting they don't know what business they are in?

You are arguing there were buses getting people from Piazza Grimana to Domus, right? Do you happen to know where the Domus is located ?

 

[Katody Matrass]

I've proven my point to the lurkers and fencesitters.

I doubt anyone of them have any idea what the disco buses issue is about. Just ask Lionking.

 

[Chris C]

Chris,
Technically, in this case, it is not whether there has been a crime committed by whether a conviction was properly obtained. The CIA agrents in question were charged with a crime - maybe numerous ones, but for simplicity's sake I will focus on kidnapping. It is a crime in both countries. Why then did the USA not extradite the agents?
Because the CONVICTION was invalid. In the USA a defendant has the basic right to confront his/her accuser in the court at trial. In abstentia trials are not allowed (a defendant may be disruptive in court and be removed but his legal representative remains and the trial continues). In this case, the Italian "conviction" was not a conviction within the meaning of US law and precedent - therefore the extradiction request was ignored.

To the Italian judges it was kidnapping. Between the Italian Government and US government it was a transfer of a terrorist. Eventhough at a later date, they were unsure he was a terrorist. Transfer of prisoners isn't a crime in the US. Just because the Italian judges call it Kidnapping in Italy doesn't mean it would be called Kidnapping in the US. Though I do agree they have more than one reason to ignore the extradition request.

Domus describes itself as a disco. Are you suggesting they don't know what business they are in?

Where is Domus?

 

[Withnail1969]

You are arguing there were buses getting people from Piazza Grimana to Domus, right? Do you happen to know where the Domus is located ?

I genuinely think she doesn't even know what she's arguing. For someone in 2011 to be saying things like 'well maybe there was a bus to Domus - prove there wasn't' - demonstrates they haven't got the first idea about the case.

 

[Alt+F4]

Bruce Fisher was presumably referring to the only discos of any relevance to this discussion, the out-of-town discos.

Even if Domus doesn't use buses because it is in the city center doesn't mean it's not of any relevance. Domus is where Rudy was seen after the murder (I think around 2:30am). That's important fact, his lack of remorse and sociopathic mentality.

 

[Alt+F4]

Where is Domus?

3 Via del Naspo

 

[Alt+F4]

I genuinely think she doesn't even know what she's arguing. For someone in 2011 to be saying things like 'well maybe there was a bus to Domus - prove there wasn't' - demonstrates they haven't got the first idea about the case.

Nails you should really do your homework on this case, especially since you think Rudy's appearance at Domus is not relevant.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

different discos for different folks

This coming from someone who still has the lie on his website that, "all the discos were closed that night".

Alt+F4,

Maybe Bruce meant all of the large, outside-of-town discos were closed.