Chaos Magic

Is this a novel debating technique - when faced with confidence, descend into incoherence?

"since when has existence been normal?" - what does that even mean?

...why do you even ask if you have no interest in an answer? Oh, I get it now, you are trying to emphasize how incoherent I am.

So why don’t we ask the question since you seem so concerned about the answer: How normal is it to be a creature that did not create itself, does not create itself, does not understand it’s own existence, yet at the very same time is fundamentally defined by a phenomenon known as ‘understanding', seems to function within a reality known as a universe that nobody really understands the true nature of, and for the most part has the ability to behave as if none of this is even relevant. I guess, dlorde, that some things are just not apparent to the naked eye.

I think it's call the "throwing multiple toys out of the pram" technique. The idea is that if you make a big enough mess no one will notice you had no point at all.

....typical I suppose. Pixy presents this absurd new scientific methodology (…because we can measure some things, we must be able to measure all things, therefore if we can’t measure it, we may justifiably conclude it does not exist)…and nobody makes a peep. Pixy suggests that we have instruments that can determine the definitive conscious state of any human being anywhere anytime…and nobody makes a peep. I point out these blatant absurdities (…which, come to think of it, bears a remarkable resemblance to something called a ‘point’…but not, understandably, to those who…in over twelve thousand posts…have yet to achieve a single coherent point of their own), and am accused of incoherence. Fine, if nonsense (or as you so obsequiously refer to it: 'confidence') is the metric by which we adjudicate the value of a statement, I’d suggest you gravitate to Pixy’s ravings. Somehow methinks the proverbial shoe is on the wrong proverbial foot.


Really. Perhaps you could provide a coherent explanation as to why the debate rages unabated? Oh yeah, I forgot…the belligerents have simply failed to acknowledge your profound wisdom…as, apparently, have the Nobel committee. You’ve already got the whole thing figured out. End of discussion.

Chomsky's a linguist.

Which obviously hasn’t the slightest thing to do with cognition, neurology, human identity, or subjective consciousness.

Actually, Chomsky's Universal Grammar is widely regarded as pseudoscience that has set the field of linguistics back thirty years.

Be that as it may, all you have done is pick an irrelevant quote from a famous - or infamous - name in an irrelevant field. This does not in any way refute the past fifty years of neuroscience.

How to avoid having to face an inconvenient truth: slander and libel

…what goes on inside the subjective consciousness of another human being is simply irrelevant is it?
To whether we can detect emotions or not, yes.

…and they accuse me of incoherence????

Name one who would disagree with the statement in context.

Don’t know if you’ve noticed Pixy, but it’s subjective consciousness that we’re studying here (that is the context), not all the little machines we use to study it with (which you seem to be so gleefully fixated upon).

Yep. There you go. Argument over. But at least you admitted that you were wrong.

…argument over? How is it over. Slippery as a greased willy Pixy. What was the whole point of that post. It was your wonderful new theory and the assertion that there is nothing hidden from us.

I await your presentation of the instrument that can definitively determine the condition of the subjective consciousness of any human being anywhere anytime…to any reasonable degree actually, let alone explicitly as that specific human being is experiencing it them-self.

That was your claim, prove it.

Your claim, specifically, was that we have scientific instruments capable of detecting anything (because…just look at all the stuff we can already detect)…remember your new theory…so produce the instrument capable of detecting every single thing a human being experiences. Otherwise, I guess we’ll just have to conclude that you’re the one who is wrong (which, I’m sure, is as plain as day to all the other resident skeptics…they’re just typically spineless about criticizing one of their own…except for Resume, who I note, in the true skeptic tradition, actually makes decisions for himself).
 
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....typical I suppose. Pixy presents this absurd new scientific methodology (…because we can measure some things, we must be able to measure all things, therefore if we can’t measure it, we may justifiably conclude it does not exist)…and nobody makes a peep. Pixy suggests that we have instruments that can determine the definitive conscious state of any human being anywhere anytime…and nobody makes a peep. I point out these blatant absurdities (…which, come to think of it, bears a remarkable resemblance to something called a ‘point’…but not, understandably, to those who…in over twelve thousand posts…have yet to achieve a single coherent point of their own), and am accused of incoherence. Fine, if nonsense (or as you so obsequiously refer to it: 'confidence') is the metric by which we adjudicate the value of a statement, I’d suggest you gravitate to Pixy’s ravings. Somehow methinks the proverbial shoe is on the wrong proverbial foot.

The implicit message is that as long as you tow the party line, no one will call you on your bull. They'll even cover your sorry behind if a designated "outsider" actually does call you out.

Don’t know if you’ve noticed Pixy, but it’s subjective consciousness that we’re studying here (that is the context), not all the little machines we use to study it with (which you seem to be so gleefully fixated upon).

Presumably, they're surrogates to help make up for an inability to maintain healthy human relationships.
 
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This is one of the few posts I've seen you make with any interesting and substantive content. Keep this up and I might be motivated to bother replying to you more often, pops :)


Thanks for the interesting and substantive reply. Keep this up and I might be motivated to bother replying to you more often. Not.
 
Thanks for the interesting and substantive reply. Keep this up and I might be motivated to bother replying to you more often. Not.

Wow, just when I was beginning to let myself think that age actually brought maturity and wisdom. Wouldn't be the first time I've been disappointed by someone I -should- be able to look up to...
 
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The implicit message is that as long as you tow the party line, no one will call you on your bull. TheyI'll even cover your sorry behind if a designated "outsider" actually does call you out.



Presumably, they're surrogates to help make up for an inability to maintain healthy human relationships.


ftfy
 
Wow, just when I was beginning to think that age actually brought maturity and wisdom. Wouldn't be the first time I've been disappointed by someone I -should- be able to look up to...

Stand on your own two feet, find your own truths, heroes are obstacles in your way. Look up to no man, god or entity for it's your life to live and your death to die and nobody will do it for you.

There's no secrets to learn nor enlightened beings to teach them. Begging help from invisible agents only points out your own weaknesses and your own insecurities.
 
Stand on your own two feet, find your own truths, heroes are obstacles in your way. Look up to no man, god or entity for it's your life to live and your death to die and nobody will do it for you.

There's no secrets to learn nor enlightened beings to teach them. Begging help from invisible agents only points out your own weaknesses and your own insecurities.

I don't beg for help. Never have. Never will. I just expect my elders to have something to offer other than platitudes, condescension, and another blow to my faith in humanity.
 
Sadly, I expect people making claims to offer hand waving and ad homs when the paucity of their evidence is exposed. It saves me from disappointment.
 
Sadly, I expect people making claims to offer hand waving and ad homs when the paucity of their evidence is exposed. It saves me from disappointment.

…sadly, I expect the typical skeptic to offer cheap excuses for their wholesale ignorance of the issues. Saves me from disappointment.
 
I've read much of it actually, just not all of it cover to cover. Its hard for me to stomach so much anger as is found in it. So I skip around it but I am easily disgusted with it. On a related note I am easily disgusted with JREF.


So, studying deeply means only reading until you are sick of it and then simply giving up?


Hmmmm...
 
Show us the evidence

The Jack and Jill philosophy of life: I am incapable of coming to a conclusion lest it be first approved through scientifically verifiable means.

“….this morning I must tie my shoes…”…
”….but hang on, how can I prove that I know that I know how to do so?...”
“…I could just do it, but I might be deceiving myself if I thought I did do it and then my shoes might just fall off….oh what shall I do…?”
“…I know, I’ll call up god Richard Dawkins…he will certainly be able to tell me whether a creature as evolutionarily advanced as me is, based on all available evidence, capable of tying it’s own shoelaces…”
…ring ring ring ring
“…Hallo…who’s this…?”
“…sorry Rich…your highness…I was just wondering, do I know how to tie my shoelaces…?”
“….**** off idiot…”

Edited to mask profanity. Do not attempt to evade the autocensor.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Rat
 
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I don't beg for help. Never have. Never will. I just expect my elders to have something to offer other than platitudes, condescension, and another blow to my faith in humanity.

If anything I have said has weakened your faith then my aim has been achieved.

Thanks for the encouragement!
 
The Jack and Jill philosophy of life: I am incapable of coming to a conclusion lest it be first approved through scientifically verifiable means.

“….this morning I must tie my shoes…”…
”….but hang on, how can I prove that I know that I know how to do so?...”
“…I could just do it, but I might be deceiving myself if I thought I did do it and then my shoes might just fall off….oh what shall I do…?”
“…I know, I’ll call up god Richard Dawkins…he will certainly be able to tell me whether a creature as evolutionarily advanced as me is, based on all available evidence, capable of tying it’s own shoelaces…”
…ring ring ring ring
“…Hallo…who’s this…?”
“…sorry Rich…your highness…I was just wondering, do I know how to tie my shoelaces…?”
“….**** off idiot…”

Learning how to tie your shoes must have been a really traumatic experience for you such early trauma could explain a lot.
 
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I don't beg for help. Never have. Never will. I just expect my elders to have something to offer other than platitudes, condescension, and another blow to my faith in humanity.
If anything I have said has weakened your faith then my aim has been achieved.

Thanks for the encouragement!

So I shouldn't respect or trust any other humans, and assume that every person I meet is an arrogant fool who is totally full of crap? Is this your sage advice?
 
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