Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

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Seems like a demand to see a piece of paper issued 40-50 years ago. Does that not seem somewhat unfair to everyone who has ever lost their original copy?

The President of the US is not anyone.

The Law says what it says, and some folks are seeking verification.

The piece of paper is not an issue with everyone who needs proof of birth for driver's license, etc.


The State issued computer printed document is sufficient.

Scenario:

A supposed US born terrorist bomber is caught with explosives in his possession just before he blows up a building.

Would the FBI, etc. dig back to the original documents to check on the complete background of the person? Would they be able to go past the Hawaiian law that disallows persons from viewing the original birth certificate?

Is the background of a terrorist less important than the background of our president?

I had another thought this morning about Obama's refusal to release his BC.

Perhaps he was born in Hawaii and his father's name is not the father as shown on the BC.

Is this possible?
 
The President of the US is not anyone.

The Law says what it says, and some folks are seeking verification.

The piece of paper is not an issue with everyone who needs proof of birth for driver's license, etc.


The State issued computer printed document is sufficient.

Scenario:

A supposed US born terrorist bomber is caught with explosives in his possession just before he blows up a building.

Would the FBI, etc. dig back to the original documents to check on the complete background of the person? Would they be able to go past the Hawaiian law that disallows persons from viewing the original birth certificate?

Is the background of a terrorist less important than the background of our president?

The FBI doesn't have any right to demand to see the original; as has been stated several times, it would violate privacy laws, and not even the FBI can violate those. It is likely that they would merely ask the office if he were in fact born in that state and would accept a sworn statement from the registrar that there is one on file.

Being a criminal/terrorist does not negate the fact that said criminal/terrorist still has rights in this country, one of them being the right to an expectation of privacy in certain matters, this being one of them.
 
Would the FBI, etc. dig back to the original documents to check on the complete background of the person? Would they be able to go past the Hawaiian law that disallows persons from viewing the original birth certificate?

No, and no.
 
The TSA can X-ray and grope you, but the FBI can't see a document.

That's right. That's because the State of Hawaii has a privilege you don't have; it has the authority to make its own laws, which the FBI is bound to respect.
 
The President of the US is not anyone.

The Law says what it says, and some folks are seeking verification.

The piece of paper is not an issue with everyone who needs proof of birth for driver's license, etc.


The State issued computer printed document is sufficient.

Scenario:

A supposed US born terrorist bomber is caught with explosives in his possession just before he blows up a building.

Would the FBI, etc. dig back to the original documents to check on the complete background of the person? Would they be able to go past the Hawaiian law that disallows persons from viewing the original birth certificate?

Is the background of a terrorist less important than the background of our president?

I had another thought this morning about Obama's refusal to release his BC.

Perhaps he was born in Hawaii and his father's name is not the father as shown on the BC.

Is this possible?

In the modern, technology age keeping paper copies of all those documents would just be wasteful. I find it better to keep the information stored someplace so anyone who has a vested, and legal, reason to view it can. Of course not everyone is as pro-paperless as I am, so keeping fiche copies of the analog age documents is probably a good safety net.

Remember, the information on the documents are more important than the actual documents. Requesting to see a document that they don't provide anymore and isn't a legal requirement for anything is just stupid.

ETA: However, to play along with your crazy little world, every president will now need to show an original copy of their birth certificate. If it isn't roughly the same age as themselves then they are no longer qualified to be president. Is that how you want it?
 
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Dream on, you are living in a fantasy world.

The TSA can X-ray and grope you, but the FBI can't see a document.

The internet is private, as are your telephone conversations.

Right!

I think you may be confusing "things that are permitted by law that I don't like" and "things that I like that are not permitted by law."
 
That's right. That's because the State of Hawaii has a privilege you don't have; it has the authority to make its own laws, which the FBI is bound to respect.

A fire engine, a police car, and a mail truck approach an intersection.

Which vehicle has the right of way? Federal, state, or local?
 
A fire engine, a police car, and a mail truck approach an intersection.

Which vehicle has the right of way? Federal, state, or local?

The vehicle of even the smallest local police department will have right of way over the Federal mail truck. Unless its lights and siren are off. Then it's just a matter of whoever got to the stop sign first.
 
And before you bring up the example you're probably about to, the FBI can't just swoop in and take over an investigation like they do in police shows. Unless it's an investigation of something that could be a federal crime, in which case it's a jurisdictional matter.
 
In the modern, technology age keeping paper copies of all those documents would just be wasteful.

Even 50 years ago it was wasteful.

Vital records were microfilmed long ago. The fact that the "Nordyke Twins" BC which was issued in 1964 is a white on black copy indicates that it is a zerograph of a microfilmed document.
 
...........In Georgia, for example, HB37 by Rep. Bobby Franklin not only demands original birth-certificate documentation, it provides a procedure for and declares that citizens have "standing" to challenge the documentation......."

Read more: 10 states now developing eligibility proof-demands http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=255965#ixzz1FBBwb8bd

As a sign of how bone-stupid these bills are, the Texas one, as written, would prevent anyone from ever being certified as as a presidential candidate in that state.
 
Obama is the President of the United States of America and the Commander in Chief of America's armed forces.

Case closed.
 
The President of the US is not anyone.

The Law says what it says, and some folks are seeking verification.

The piece of paper is not an issue with everyone who needs proof of birth for driver's license, etc.


The State issued computer printed document is sufficient.

Scenario:

A supposed US born terrorist bomber is caught with explosives in his possession just before he blows up a building.

Would the FBI, etc. dig back to the original documents to check on the complete background of the person? Would they be able to go past the Hawaiian law that disallows persons from viewing the original birth certificate?

Is the background of a terrorist less important than the background of our president?

I had another thought this morning about Obama's refusal to release his BC.

Perhaps he was born in Hawaii and his father's name is not the father as shown on the BC.

Is this possible?

Now Obama's a terrorist?
 
The President of the US is not anyone.

Actually, with respect to a birth certificate issued by the State where he/she was born, the President is exactly like anyone else. A request for a certified birth certificate from the State of Hawaii by any citizen will result in exactly the document that has been provided to Obama and to the media. The law (see below) says that this is the official birth certificate of the State and is proof that the person on the birth certificate was born in the state. You cant say


The Law says what it says, and some folks are seeking verification.?

To suggest that the law says something different than it does. The LAW of Hawaii says that the form provided is proof of birth in the state and is recognized by the State (and thus by all states and the federal government) as proof of live birth in the state of Hawaii.

As you said, the law says what the law says. That some people are seeking "verification" is not only irrelevant -- as they BY LAW may not be permitted or have any right to what you call "verification" -- but, additionally, the law of the state does, in fact, provide exactly the "verification" you say you want. The State of Hawaii says that he was born there and that is all the law provides and that is all the proof the law requires.


Scenario:

A supposed US born terrorist bomber is caught with explosives in his possession just before he blows up a building.

Would the FBI, etc. dig back to the original documents to check on the complete background of the person? Would they be able to go past the Hawaiian law that disallows persons from viewing the original birth certificate?

Is the background of a terrorist less important than the background of our president?.?

The easy answer is NO they would not be able to "go beyond" the Hawaii law BECAUSE that is the only official state document of the birth that now exists. THe FBI would by law take the State Certification for what it legally is CERTIFIED PROOF by the State that the person on the birth certificate was born in the state. This would not just be true for Hawaii but most if not all other states that essentially (in one form or another ) do the same thing. Your senario simply doesn't work either legally or from an investagatory stand point.

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I had another thought this morning about Obama's refusal to release his BC.

It is good that your thinking, but so sad that your thinking is so muddled to the point where you accept lies as truth. The one certain thing here is that Obama has not ever refused to release his birth certificate. He has released it. It is on the web for all to see. It has been examined by experts who have confirmed that it is an official State of Hawaii birth certificate.

What he hasn't done is release the super secret special magical birth certificate that only Obama of everyone born in Hawaii was issued. But that one, I'm afraid, is probably not admissible in any court of law -- specifically because the crayon coloring is smudged and the issuer colored outside the lines.


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Perhaps he was born in Hawaii and his father's name is not the father as shown on the BC.

Is this possible?

Sure, the sun may not come up tomorrow. That's possible too. What difference would it make? The stupidity of your "possiblity" is, essentially to admit that he was born in Hawaii. What difference do you think it would make to anyone if his father isn't Barrak Obama Sr? Especially in this day and age...we've had other presidents born of different fathers than the names they carry ... Gerald Ford and Bill Clinton for example (borh Leslie King and William Blythe). It is a meaningless possiblity that completely undermines your magical premise that the President was somehow born in Kenya to a Marxist/Islamofaciest father and is not a citizen. Get your freak'n conspiracies straigth.

BTW, what do we really know about Lislie King Sr?
 
As a sign of how bone-stupid these bills are, the Texas one, as written, would prevent anyone from ever being certified as as a presidential candidate in that state.

That's the logical result of the demand that both parents be US citizens because that means that all four of your grandparents also be US citizens and at some point you'll have a non Us citizen in the family tree thereby tainting all the fruit.
 
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