Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Katody Matrass]

Because she made an error, it does happen.

Yes, that's my opinion too. I'm glad we agree that the evidence in the case is not real but a result of incompetence

 

[Withnail1969]

Don't worry about it Justianian, since he is a semi-literate moron in his own language I don't think he'll be able to read this forum.

Actually Raffaele seems to have learned to write quite well in English.

 

[daydreamer]

Thanks for the great experiment, katy_did
It looks like the hooks are much weaker points then the seams of the clasp. Though in your photo there's a hint of a seam failure in one spot, too.
What made me agree with Hendry was that the clasp itself doesn't look cut. There's also something looking like a seam (hem?) on the bra strap where the bra clasp was. But the bra pic in the pdf is still of too low resolution to see any obvious signs of cutting. It's a pity we don't have close-ups as good as those of the clasp.
From what I know so far I must agree with you, though I think some possibility exist that the bra ripped in such unlikely manner. After all it was pulled hard, that's undisputed.

The whole point was Hendry's credibility - it still looks strong to me, his reconstructions are very good. If he had better resolution photo of the bra he may still be right about it, too.

From the pics below, the bra fabric and clasp material are obviously 2 different types.
I addressed this in an earlier post :
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6600777&postcount=17508

You can see the stitch lines where the 2 pieces were attached in the photo on the left. Also, if the bra was cut there would be a piece of the clasp material on the bra or vice versa. There is also a piece of the bra edging missing. To me, it looks like the stiching threads broke before either of the materials or the hooks.

 

[Alt+F4]

Yes, that's my opinion too. I'm glad we agree that the evidence in the case is not real but a result of incompetence

There seems to be a misunderstanding among many people that if these two pieces of DNA evidence are thrown out (I think the knife will be tossed, the bra clasp will remain) Saint Amanda and her creepy ****buddy will be freed. I doubt it. There is still a huge amount of circumstantial evidence against them. The majority of people convicted of serious crimes don't have any DNA evidence involved. I wonder, of the hundred or so persons who have been exonerated through improved DNA techniques, what was the evidence against them? I would think nothing other than the DNA and testimony of the victim and not piles of circumstantial evidence.

 

[Justinian2]

Because she made an error, it does happen. But that's boring compared to making up a wild conspiracy theory involving planted evidence, Hitler-like prosecutors, depraved police officers all with a single mission: to keep Saint Amanda, the patron saint of Seattle, in prison forever....


....just cause she's beautiful!

Guede is the Perugian Craigslist killer. Only instead of just indicting the killer, they indicted a girl the killer said he liked and her boyfriend as well.

This whole thing would have been over years ago if the police had just stopped with Guede.

Why did the Craigslist killer kill? Because the woman fought back. Think about it.

Why are the Perugian police mad? Because the American fought back.

Damn the people that fight back!

 

[Withnail1969]

There seems to be a misunderstanding among many people that if these two pieces of DNA evidence are thrown out (I think the knife will be tossed, the bra clasp will remain) Saint Amanda and her creepy ****buddy will be freed. I doubt it. There is still a huge amount of circumstantial evidence against them. The majority of people convicted of serious crimes don't have any DNA evidence involved. I wonder, of the hundred or so persons who have been exonerated through improved DNA techniques, what was the evidence against them? I would think nothing other than the DNA and testimony of the victim and not piles of circumstantial evidence.

Are you stating this from any particular position of authority or are you just expressing your opinion like the rest of us?

 

[Alt+F4]

Guede is the Perugian Craigslist killer.

I must have missed that, RG killed himself in prison and wrote his fiance's pet name in blood in his cell? He came from a wealthy home and was in medical school at the time of his arrest?

In the Lifetime version they will probably have RG writing Amanda's name in blood in his cell before he kills himself while admitting to a homosexual affair with RS. Sigourney Weaver will play Edda Mellas.

 

[Alt+F4]

Are you stating this from any particular position of authority or are you just expressing your opinion like the rest of us?

It's just my opinion except the part about RS being creepy.

 

[Alt+F4]

Actually Raffaele seems to have learned to write quite well in English.

Well that's good now maybe he can start working on his Italian.

 

[Justinian2]

I must have missed that, RG killed himself in prison and wrote his fiance's pet name in blood in his cell? He came from a wealthy home and was in medical school at the time of his arrest?

In the Lifetime version they will probably have RG writing Amanda's name in blood in his cell before he kills himself while admitting to a homosexual affair with RS. Sigourney Weaver will play Edda Mellas.

Guede and the Craigslist killer were lone wolves that stole from women and killed the one that fought back.

 

[RoseMontague]

Because she made an error, it does happen. But that's boring compared to making up a wild conspiracy theory involving planted evidence, Hitler-like prosecutors, depraved police officers all with a single mission: to keep Saint Amanda, the patron saint of Seattle, in prison forever....


....just cause she's beautiful!

The Italians have no shortage of beautiful women to throw in jail if that is what they want. Is there a resemblance between these two?

 

[Katody Matrass]

There seems to be a misunderstanding among many people that if these two pieces of DNA evidence are thrown out (I think the knife will be tossed, the bra clasp will remain) Saint Amanda and her creepy ****buddy will be freed. I doubt it. There is still a huge amount of circumstantial evidence against them. The majority of people convicted of serious crimes don't have any DNA evidence involved. I wonder, of the hundred or so persons who have been exonerated through improved DNA techniques, what was the evidence against them? I would think nothing other than the DNA and testimony of the victim and not piles of circumstantial evidence.

It's not a misunderstanding but rather difference of opinions
That "huge amount" is very subjective and speculative. Given a particularly impressible jury you could of course convict basing even just on cartwheels, smiles and poor wardrobe selection ( ETA: or substandard Italian ), but it's not something that would hold in the high court. Nor in any rational mind.

BTW is everything OK today? I sense a lot of agitation and bad vibes.

 

[Alt+F4]

The Italians have no shortage of beautiful women to throw in jail if that is what they want. Is there a resemblance between these two?

No Rose, it has to be an American woman! Americans are evil, want to take over the world and stomp on puppies!

Has Mignini been to NYC lately because I think he stole my kid's bike.

 

[Onofarar]

Although we have no evidence of it, I agree with another poster who said he might be doing all this pro bono. The amount of publicity generated will be worth more than hundreds or thousands of billable hours.

I checked a couple of my wife's recipe books and I could not find publicity listed as a main dish or entree anywhere.

 

[Alt+F4]

I checked a couple of my wife's recipe books and I could not find publicity listed as a main dish or entree anywhere.

Ooops, sorry, my bad!

 

[babycondor]

Umm, OK. I think you'll find all these photos of the purpoted murder weapon were taken by the Polizia Scientifica. Who else did you think took them? Or are you accusing them of substituting a different knife for reasons unknown?

I suppose I could ask Frank to confirm that all 4 photos came from the police but that would seem somewhat idiotic since that's clearly where he got them.

I don't know what you are trying to argue when you say 'I can't swear it's the same knife in all the pictures'.

I'm making the point that images found on the Internet cannot be used to draw firm conclusions about the case. For example, the image of the knife in the plastic evidence bag is credited to "AP" (Associated Press) and has been reproduced many times all over the Internet. The knife looks shiny clean in this image. The black and white image on Frank's web site circa 2007 appears to have been provided by the Polizia Scientifica. That knife looks a bit grubby, but it could be poor resolution. Frank's latest images look different still. Aside from being zoomed in, the color is different. Did he tweak the color to emphasize the appearance of the "dirty" portion of the knife? I can't say, and neither can anyone.

For the record, I have greater than reasonable doubt that this knife was the murder weapon, and greater than reasonable doubt that Amanda and Rudy had anything to do with Meredith's murder.

My only point here is about the unreliability of using images found on the Internet to draw firm conclusions about the evidence.

 

[Justinian2]

If you had the choice of going down a dark alley with Guede lurking in the distance or one with Raffaele and Amanda lurking in the distance, which dark alley would you take?

 

[Alt+F4]

If you had the choice of going down a dark alley with Guede lurking in the distance or one with Raffaele and Amanda lurking in the distance, which dark alley would you take?

Well it would depend on how much marijuana I wanted.

 

[Fine]

Thanks for the great experiment, katy_did
It looks like the hooks are much weaker points then the seams of the clasp. Though in your photo there's a hint of a seam failure in one spot, too.
What made me agree with Hendry was that the clasp itself doesn't look cut. There's also something looking like a seam (hem?) on the bra strap where the bra clasp was. But the bra pic in the pdf is still of too low resolution to see any obvious signs of cutting. It's a pity we don't have close-ups as good as those of the clasp.
From what I know so far I must agree with you, though I think some possibility exist that the bra ripped in such unlikely manner. After all it was pulled hard, that's undisputed.

The whole point was Hendry's credibility - it still looks strong to me, his reconstructions are very good. If he had better resolution photo of the bra he may still be right about it, too.

________________________


Odd to see you, Katody---of all people---defending Hendry's credibility.
You were the one who---a couple months ago---was able to illustrate a major blunder in Hendry's reconstruction of Rudy's climb into Filomena's window. You were able to show that Rudy could have simply reached into the broken window and unlatched it, while still standing on the grate covering the lower window. As I recall, the "reach" was only about 7 feet, 3 inches, so there was no need for Hendry's invented maneuver in which Rudy pulls himself up with one arm until ---at some elevation--he reaches through the broken window with the other arm to unlatch the window. An implausible and unnecessary maneuver, akin to Rudy breaking Meredith's bra while he's behind her, has her on her knees---or on all fours---with his knife drawn.

///

 

[Withnail1969]

My only point here is about the unreliability of using images found on the Internet to draw firm conclusions about the evidence.

I would argue that depends on the source and so far I have found Frank to be consistently reliable and to have the best insights on the case.