Who started both World Wars?

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9/11-investigator said:
Can somebody please come to the aide of MG1962 who has maneuvered himself in such a mess that he is unable to explain himself a way out of this mess:

So we have Hitler on record as saying:



This does not sound like Djenghis Kahn 2.0 conquering Russia just for the heck of it, now does it?... "there was no other possibility"



Can somebody, brave enough to admit that he still believes in the traditional fairy tale that Hitler invaded Russia as a sort of Djenghis Kahn 2.0, please help MG1962 out? On behalf of MG1962, thanks!

BTW was Djenghis Kahn a Jew? :D
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And in Mein Kampf we have Hitler saying He is going to invade Russian. He actually names the place and the reason he is doing it. Vol 2 Chapter 14. For such a fanboi of the guy I really would have thought you would have read his opus by now

Though knowledge has not been your strong point in this thread so far
 
MG1962 said:
And in Mein Kampf we have Hitler saying He is going to invade Russian. He actually names the place and the reason he is doing it. Vol 2 Chapter 14. For such a fanboi of the guy I really would have thought you would have read his opus by now
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For you there is no difference between:
a) the fabulations of a young imprisoned hothead with no career worth mentioning let alone becoming chancellor of Germany and
b) 3 millions of Soviet troops amassed along the Soviet-German border (some 16 years after MK was written).

:confused:

I did read his magnum opus many year ago. I noticed that he never anticipated, let alone wished for a war with Western Europe. The mistake he made was that he assumed that British are rational thinking beings rather than a tribe wishing to commit sociocide at the first opportunity. We know better now. Britain preferred handing over Europe to Soviet-American invaders (and now third worlders) rather than dominating the world together with the Germans. In any future design of a resurrection of European civilization Britain will have no place. Any measure must be taken in the future to prevent them from destroying Europe again, now together with the Chinese.
 
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By no means do we solely have to rely on Suvorov if we have the American Albert Weeks. In Stalin's Other War: Soviet Grand Strategy, 1939-1941 he confirms what Suvorov said.

From the Amazon readers comments

Among these documents are transcripts of Stalin's famous toast to graduates of the Military academies from the 5th of May, 1941, and the text of Stalin's previously hotly disputed secret speech to the Soviet Politburo, dated August 19, 1939, just days before signing the Hitler-Stalin Pact including its secret protocol about the territorial division of Poland, the Baltics and Bessarabia. The text was discovered in Russian archives and has also been confirmed by diary entries of Comintern head Dimitrov. Stalin predicts that Germany will have to fight a long war against France and England, allowing the Soviet Union to sovietize not only defeated Germany but also France
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An even more important document is from the Soviet General Staff. It is a war plan against Germany, calling explicitly for a pre-emptive strike against German forces! The document, titled "Considerations of the Plan for the Strategic Deployment of the Armed forces of the Soviet Union in Case of War with Germany and its Allies", is dated May 15, 1941. It has been prepared mainly by General, later Marshal, A. Vasilievsky, Deputy Head of the Operations Department of the Soviet General Staff (Stavka). The Memorandum was presented to Stalin by Commissar of Defense S. Timoshenko and Chief of the General Staff G. Zhukov.
The document "Considerations..." (15 handwritten pages long) is explicitly calling for a pre-emptive strike against German forces.
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In fact, Weeks deals both Glantz's and Gorodetsky's apologia of Stalin a deadly blow with his well researched book.
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If you read this book and Suvorov's you will come to the conclusion that the only country prepared for a world war was the USSR and that they almost pulled it off with Hitler as an unwitting dupe!
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tsig said:
He also was the weakest since according to deniers he was forced to go to war, forced to invade Russia and in general had no control of events.

ETA: Makes you almost fell sorry for him, a nice guy caught in such a situation but what's a Fuhrer to do?
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tsig is slowly adapting to new intellectual realities.
He is getting there. :)
 
9/11-investigator said:
For you there is no difference between:
a) the fabulations of a young imprisoned hothead with no career worth mentioning let alone becoming chancellor of Germany and
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And 16 years later goes on to do exactly what he said he would do....invade Russia

b) 3 millions of Soviet troops amassed along the Soviet-German border (some 16 years after MK was written).

:confused:
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How is that evidence coming along?
 
9/11-investigator said:
For you there is no difference between:
a) the fabulations of a young imprisoned hothead with no career worth mentioning let alone becoming chancellor of Germany and
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Spouting off nonsense again? When Hitler wrote Mein Kampf, he was already on the road to become quite a successful politican. The NSDAP was on its way to become quite popular in Bavaria, and Hitler was an oft guest in the better Munich circles.
 
ddt said:
Spouting off nonsense again? When Hitler wrote Mein Kampf, he was already on the road to become quite a successful politican. The NSDAP was on its way to become quite popular in Bavaria, and Hitler was an oft guest in the better Munich circles.
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You say it.

Again he was in jail when he wrote MK. So I stick with my assertion 'no career worth mentioning let alone becoming chancellor of Germany'.
 
garethdjb said:
I said they BEGAN fortifying the border in 1940. BEGAN. Do you understand?

The Russians began constructing fortifications in Poland along the new frontier 4 days after the surrender of France. They continued building up until the invasion.
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And somehow you want to push this as a proof that one year later Soviet troops could not possibly have been amassed long the Axis-Soviet border? :confused:
 
9/11-investigator said:
You say it.

Again he was in jail when he wrote MK. So I stick with my assertion 'no career worth mentioning let alone becoming chancellor of Germany'.
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You can stick your assertion anywhere you want. The facts are he wrote he would invade Russia - Vol2 Chapter 14 - And that was exactly what he did
 
9/11-investigator said:
And somehow you want to push this as a proof that one year later Soviet troops could not possibly have been amassed long the Axis-Soviet border? :confused:
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Why are you having difficulty following this line of thought that you started? You quoted some guy with a Russian name from Heidelberg wondering why the Red Army hadn't dug in. I'm saying that they had. They built a defensive line on their new border with Germany. Why did they build defences if they were planning to attack? Why did Kirponos have 43,000 workers building defences in March '41 if they were going to attack a few months later?

As to Hitler's intentions, he described his ideas about Lebensraum more fully in his 'Second Book' in 1928.
 
MG1962 said:
You can stick your assertion anywhere you want. The facts are he wrote he would invade Russia - Vol2 Chapter 14 - And that was exactly what he did
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World Bolshevism was the explicit goal of the communists, not just something Stalin wrote years before he ascended to power. And that was what the Soviets had prepared for ever since it's beginnings in the twenties. One huge military buildup at extreme cost for the population. And now that Stalin had maneuvered Hitler into war with the West-European powers he thought the time was ripe to open a second front. And that was exactly what he did in 1941.
 
9/11-investigator said:
World Bolshevism was the explicit goal of the communists, not just something Stalin wrote years before he ascended to power. And that was what the Soviets had prepared for ever since it's beginnings in the twenties. One huge military buildup at extreme cost for the population. And now that Stalin had maneuvered Hitler into war with the West-European powers he thought the time was ripe to open a second front. And that was exactly what he did in 1941.
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None of this matters.

Did Stalin invade Germany No

Did Hitler invade Russia Yes

Did Hitle say he would invade Russia Yes

End of story. Spin it all you want how you want. The final answer comes back to Mein Kampf Vol 2 Chapter 14 Hitler did exactly what he claimed he would for the reasons he would
 
garethdjb said:
Why are you having difficulty following this line of thought that you started? You quoted some guy with a Russian name from Heidelberg wondering why the Red Army hadn't dug in. I'm saying that they had. They built a defensive line on their new border with Germany. Why did they build defences if they were planning to attack? Why did Kirponos have 43,000 workers building defences in March '41 if they were going to attack a few months later?
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This Kirponos? Not a word about building defenses. Got a link?

As to Hitler's intentions, he described his ideas about Lebensraum more fully in his 'Second Book' in 1928.
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I admit that he was dreaming in his younger and more irresponsible years of mildly mimicking the behavior of British, French and Dutch colonizers and acquire a strip of land here and there, but nothing on the scale the British had done, invading and occupying 25% of the planets surface. But in the climate of 1941 he could even think of stampeding into Russia just to flex a few muscles, while he was at war with Britain in the West and knowing very well that the US would enter the war at the first possible opportunity.

So what is your explanation for the words said by Hitler against Mannerheim about having been forced to attack with an army designed for war in the West. MG1962 already implicitely admitted that he has no clue. How about you?
 
9/11-investigator said:
So what is your explanation for the words said by Hitler against Mannerheim about having been forced to attack with an army designed for war in the West. MG1962 already implicitely admitted that he has no clue. How about you?
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I dont have to explain anything because he never said he was forced. And I am still waiting for you to hand in your homework about this preemptive attack planned by the Soviets.

By the time Hitler speaks to Mannerheim, he clearly has losy complete touch on the conduct of the war, otherwise he'd not have been talking about 35,000 tanks
 
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