Moderated Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion

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but round and round we go.


birther talking points about citizenship summarized:

1) Obama wasn't born in Hawaii -- COLB says he was. Two newspaper announcements prove that he was.

2) But, his father was a Kenyan -- Father's citizenship matters not on American Citizenship

3) Father had British citizenship which means Obama is a British citizen, and dual citizens aren't Natural born citizens --- Father's citizenship matters not on American citizenship and no where in the Constitution does it say that one cannot be a dual citizen to be considered eligible for POTUS

Case in point: Thomas Jefferson (became a French Citizen), John F. Kennedy (Irish Citizen from birth by father)

4) Stanley Ann wasn't old enough to pass on US Citizenship --- This only applies to those born abroad. Law since then has changed.

5) Both Parents must be US Citizens! (aka De Vattel rule) -- No where in the Constitution or case history supports this claim

6) Obama lost his US citizenship when he was adopted by Lolo Soetoro --

a) A minor child cannot renounce his citizenship unless they are aware of the consequence in doing so -- Obama was 6 years of age when he went to live with his mother's new husband and family

b) Indonesian law at the time didn't allow non-citizen children to be adopted after the age of 5.

c) no record on file that Lolo adopted Obama (and even if he did adopt Obama, that doesn't automatically rescind Obama's US citizenship status).
​


These are the broken record claims of birthers for the last 2 years.
 
Hawaii governor claims record of Obama's birth 'exists in archives' but can't produce the vital document

By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 3:32 PM on 20th January 2011

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Governor Neil Abercrombie is facing renewed pressure over Obama's Hawaiin origins

Pressure was mounting on Hawaii Governor Neil Abercrombie today amid increasing confusion over whether President Obama was born there.

Abercrombie said on Tuesday that an investigation had unearthed papers proving Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961.

He told Honolulu's Star-Advertiser: 'It actually exists in the archives, written down,' he said.

But it became apparent that what had been discovered was an unspecified listing or notation of Obama's birth that someone had made in the state archives and not a birth certificate.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...h-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1Be11Ww6w

Hawaii - ????? Is it real?
 
ETA:
Hawaii Governor Finds Documentation of Obama's Birth

Last month Abercrombie vowed to find another official record of Obama's birth in the state's archives, and find it he did. On Tuesday he announced that they had found documentation that "actually exists in the archives, written down."
Click to expand...

Not sure if this actually changes anything.

Why have an announcement unless you actually have something to show people?
 
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boyntonstu said:
Hawaii governor claims record of Obama's birth 'exists in archives' but can't produce the vital document

By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 3:32 PM on 20th January 2011

* Comments (0)
* Add to My Stories




Governor Neil Abercrombie is facing renewed pressure over Obama's Hawaiin origins
Click to expand...
What pressure?

Pressure was mounting on Hawaii Governor Neil Abercrombie today amid increasing confusion over whether President Obama was born there.
Click to expand...
What pressure?

Abercrombie said on Tuesday that an investigation had unearthed papers proving Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961.

He told Honolulu's Star-Advertiser: 'It actually exists in the archives, written down,' he said.

But it became apparent that what had been discovered was an unspecified listing or notation of Obama's birth that someone had made in the state archives and not a birth certificate.
Click to expand...
How is that "apparent?"

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...h-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1Be11Ww6w

Hawaii - ????? Is it real?
Click to expand...

This is the second time you've linked to an article that is using the Honolulu Star article as reference. Have you read the original article?
 
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boyntonstu said:
Hawaii governor claims record of Obama's birth 'exists in archives' but can't produce the vital document

By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 3:32 PM on 20th January 2011

* Comments (0)
* Add to My Stories




Governor Neil Abercrombie is facing renewed pressure over Obama's Hawaiin origins

Pressure was mounting on Hawaii Governor Neil Abercrombie today amid increasing confusion over whether President Obama was born there.

Abercrombie said on Tuesday that an investigation had unearthed papers proving Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961.

He told Honolulu's Star-Advertiser: 'It actually exists in the archives, written down,' he said.

But it became apparent that what had been discovered was an unspecified listing or notation of Obama's birth that someone had made in the state archives and not a birth certificate.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...h-record-exists-produce-it.html#ixzz1Be11Ww6w

Hawaii - ????? Is it real?
Click to expand...

In other news, bigotted birther racists completely ignore everything in this thread that explains why they´re full of ****.
 
CptColumbo said:
This is the second time you've linked to an article that is using the Honolulu Star article as reference. Have you read the original article?
Click to expand...



I'm going to say, "Probably not," as he'd likely be afraid of finding out that the original source doesn't actually support these rather liberal interpretations.


Q: You stirred up quite a controversy with your comments regarding birthers and your plans to release more information regarding President Barack Obama's birth certificate. How is that coming?

A: I got a letter from someone the other day who was genuinely concerned about it; it is not all just political agenda. They were talking on Olelo last night about this; it has a political implication for 2012 that we simply cannot have.

(Abercrombie said there is a recording of the birth in the State Archives and he wants to use that.)

It was actually written I am told, this is what our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives, written down ...

...What I can do, and all I have ever said, is that I am going to see to it as governor that I can verify to anyone who is honest about it that this is the case.

If there is a political agenda then there is nothing I can do about that, nor can the president.
Click to expand...
 
At least with Apollo hoax claims, a lot of the science and technology issues are unfamiliar to most people.
At least with JFK claims, it's not hard to imagine a 2nd person with a gun.
At least with 9/11/01 CD claims, the building collapses look vaguely like CD (the buildings fell down, after all).
At least with UFO claims, you can't prove they don't exist.
At least with 9/11/01 "no planer" claims, the claimants have the obvious excuse of insanity.

But "birtherism" is the stupidest conspiracy theory ever, and I marvel that anyone who actually believes this idiocy can manipulate a keyboard. Likewise for any "birther" who expects rational people to believe that, sure, another document produced by the Establishment (going old school here) will actually satisfy their doubts.

Stupidest. Conspiracy. Theory. Ever.
 
sts60 said:
Stupidest. Conspiracy. Theory. Ever.
Click to expand...

It all started with claims from known racists. The entire movement is based on the hate and vitriol coming from white supremacists who just don't like the fact that a black man is in control of our country.

Oh yes, some of the misguided right wing morons are attached to it, but if you look at all of those that are really tied to it, you will find their connections to various RACIST groups.


Yes one of the stupidest conspiracy theories ever, but its a not so cleverly disguised, one BIG racist rant.
 
sts60 said:
At least with Apollo hoax claims, a lot of the science and technology issues are unfamiliar to most people.
At least with JFK claims, it's not hard to imagine a 2nd person with a gun.
At least with 9/11/01 CD claims, the building collapses look vaguely like CD (the buildings fell down, after all).
At least with UFO claims, you can't prove they don't exist.
At least with 9/11/01 "no planer" claims, the claimants have the obvious excuse of insanity.

But "birtherism" is the stupidest conspiracy theory ever, and I marvel that anyone who actually believes this idiocy can manipulate a keyboard. Likewise for any "birther" who expects rational people to believe that, sure, another document produced by the Establishment (going old school here) will actually satisfy their doubts.

Stupidest. Conspiracy. Theory. Ever.
Click to expand...

I disagree. It's a very stupid one but, once you get beyond the point of "just asking questions," it's much easier to construct a vaguely plausible scenario for Obama being born in another country than it is to construct one for the government carrying out 9/11.
 
DrBaltar said:
Don't forget to mention his Grandmother ID'd him coming out the birth canal in Kenya.
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Locating the Long Form BC is be a simple matter to resolve.

The Governor considers it very important and he has asked his staff to search for it.

They have already indicated that it exists.

(An adjacent numbered BC has been produced)

Let's wait a few more months, they will surely locate the document.
 
boyntonstu said:
Locating the Long Form BC is be a simple matter to resolve.

The Governor considers it very important and he has asked his staff to search for it.

They have already indicated that it exists.

(An adjacent numbered BC has been produced)

Let's wait a few more months, they will surely locate the document.
Click to expand...

I´m sure by then your and your pals will have invented plenty of reasons to dismiss anything that is presented.
 
If this case ever does go to court it might go something like this:

Obama's Attorney: Your honor, in addition to the photos of copies on FactCheck.org we have this statement by JREF member Thunder.

Thunder said:
Obama is a natural-born American citizen. He was born in Hawaii.

Case closed.
Click to expand...

I rest my case.
 
DrBaltar said:
Don't forget to mention his Grandmother ID'd him coming out the birth canal in Kenya.
Click to expand...

Because as we all know, eyewitness accounts are never wrong - especially for very old events and the account run through a translator. Proper record keeping? Nah, screw that.
 
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