Charlie Wilkes
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Not a chance. If you don't trust Amanda's family to apply the money to her defense, don't contribute.
Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case
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Not a chance. If you don't trust Amanda's family to apply the money to her defense, don't contribute.
RoseMontague
Published Author
Yes, will edit/add. Thanks.
ETA, will wait a few days and see what else trickles in if anyone has something else they thing should be added.
http://maxlamontagne.blogspot.com/
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RoseMontague
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daydreamer
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Does anyone know the status of Giulia Bongiorno, and whether she plans on being in court this Saturday?
DNA Treaty
It is why the independent review could go nowhere in freeing AK & RS. Italy has no standards on DNA testing. (or their standards whatever they are are not consistent with those in the rest of the western democracies and/or are inconsistent with known scientific practices and procedures on DNA evidence collection and testing). Hopefully our two esteemed professors do not suffer from "NIH" symdrome. (NIH = Not Invented Here)
Rose, I saw this somewhere before - not sure if it was here but if it was my best guess is that it was in the 250-300 page range of the 1st continuation. It may have been a mention in the discussion about the GW Law paper that pointed out how Italy is not following its obligations under the ECHR treaty it signed in 1961.
It is why the independent review could go nowhere in freeing AK & RS. Italy has no standards on DNA testing. (or their standards whatever they are are not consistent with those in the rest of the western democracies and/or are inconsistent with known scientific practices and procedures on DNA evidence collection and testing). Hopefully our two esteemed professors do not suffer from "NIH" symdrome. (NIH = Not Invented Here)
Withnail1969
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But surely with such a high profile controversial case they can't blatantly fly in the face of generally accepted international standards? Don't they realise how ridiculous they look to the rest of the world?
CDHost
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Sure they can. Abu Zubaydah is much higher profile and we've violated way more rules than the Italians have in their treatment of Amanda Knox. The question is not can they but why would they? Bush used Abu Zubaydah to get: enhancements to the torture program, to argue for the Iraq war, to pass the military commission act, to authorize some of the early domestic spying activities. Like or hate him GWBush got a lot our of imprisoning Abu Zubaydah on basically a BS case. The whole world knew we were violating all sorts of international conventions, called us on it, and we still didn't care. And if you look at what GWBush got from it, you can see why.
In the case of Italy I have yet to hear any advantage to Italy what-so-ever in Amanda's imprisonment. Its a pure political negative. Italy frankly is one of the countries that took the strongest stand against the sorts of things we did to Abu Zubaydah. Arguably one of the main reasons Amanda is in jail today is she happened to be in the room when the Italians discovered their government behind closed doors was assisting in those sort of activities.
But what basis do the Italiahs have for these complaints if they hold that people captured by Italians should be subject to arbitrary Italian law without any international review or input?
CD-Host from: Italy the EU and the international standards of justice said:
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Hi RWVBWL,
Well, innocent of what exactly???
I don't think Amanda could ever prove herself innocent of defamation. As far as I'm concerned she's already admitted to it in her 15 minute declaration before the APPEALS court. (Much easier now for her to admit this, having already served the one-year sentence imposed. The monetary damages imposed are a different matter, but if she's found innocent of murder she'll soon be rich and have little difficulty in paying those damages---or mutually renegotiated damages--- to Patrick.)
The strongest evidence against the lovebirds, for murder, is the DNA on the bra clasp and the knife. (Duh.) If there is good reason to discount that evidence, then I believe there is no longer sufficient grounds to convict either lovebird. The "DNA experts" appointed by the court may ---or may not---provide us with grounds to discount that evidence. We'll have to wait.
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Withnail1969
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Do you accept Curatolo has been discredited?
snook1
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Has anyone noticed that on some other, "popular boards" about the case, people are trying to say how bad of a person Amanda Knox was, just beacuse she attended her classes always on time, or even was early. Apparently being right on time makes you narcisstic and attention seeking. Yikes!
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Chris_Halkides
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ILE gazes into a crystal ball
To all,
Malkmus posted this some time ago, but it bears repeating.
Friday, 2 November 2007 -- Breaking news: an English student is murdered in Perugia
Saturday, 3 November 2007 -- Further initial news on the murder, items of evidence are collected, interviews with neighbours
Sunday, 4 November 2007 -- Autopsy carried out by Dr. Luca Lalli
Monday, 5 November 2007 -- Ominous words:"It is not excluded that in the next few hours one of the many persons interviewed in recent days might be converted into a suspect."
The links at this site are dead, which is a shame. However, one infers Amanda and Raffaele were in their sites. I cannot recall with certainty whether or not Patrick was interviewed by the poiice, but I do not think so.
To all,
Malkmus posted this some time ago, but it bears repeating.
Friday, 2 November 2007 -- Breaking news: an English student is murdered in Perugia
Saturday, 3 November 2007 -- Further initial news on the murder, items of evidence are collected, interviews with neighbours
Sunday, 4 November 2007 -- Autopsy carried out by Dr. Luca Lalli
Monday, 5 November 2007 -- Ominous words:"It is not excluded that in the next few hours one of the many persons interviewed in recent days might be converted into a suspect."
The links at this site are dead, which is a shame. However, one infers Amanda and Raffaele were in their sites. I cannot recall with certainty whether or not Patrick was interviewed by the poiice, but I do not think so.
Chris_Halkides
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sitting in the front of the class
snook1,
And she sat in front. What an apple-polisher.
snook1,
And she sat in front. What an apple-polisher.
snook1
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Absolutely. That's disgusting. To be early on the classes and sit in the front, I mean, who does that?
And the same person that started this sick and offending topic, continued with this large article about narcissism. And all of this beacuse Amanda Knox attended her classes regularly.
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snook1
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So, you actually, are willing to accept the fact they're innocent after the knife and bra clasp evidence will be thrown out?
Curatolo
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Withnail,
Personally, I never attached much significance to his testimony. It makes no sense that the lovebirds would be leaning over the fence, on a cold and windy night, watching the cottage at 9:30 pm. (The disabled vehicle didn't arrive until an hour later.) This seems especially odd from the perspective of a spontaneous (non-premeditated) murder, as Massei understands the situation. I suppose they may have been waiting to meet-up with Rudy, but Rudy knew where Amanda lived---200 feet away---so if the lovebirds had gone to the comfortable cottage instead, Rudy would have known where to find them. And there was nothing to observe in watching the cottage from the square at 9:30 pm.
Curatolo's account seems consistent only with a prank theory or a theory of premeditated assault/murder.
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Withnail,
Personally, I never attached much significance to his testimony. It makes no sense that the lovebirds would be leaning over the fence, on a cold and windy night, watching the cottage at 9:30 pm. (The disabled vehicle didn't arrive until an hour later.) This seems especially odd from the perspective of a spontaneous (non-premeditated) murder, as Massei understands the situation. I suppose they may have been waiting to meet-up with Rudy, but Rudy knew where Amanda lived---200 feet away---so if the lovebirds had gone to the comfortable cottage instead, Rudy would have known where to find them. And there was nothing to observe in watching the cottage from the square at 9:30 pm.
Curatolo's account seems consistent only with a prank theory or a theory of premeditated assault/murder.
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CDHost
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Well the big judgement is the Kercher one. And the two are likely tied together. Patrick nor the Kercher's are never going to see that money. What Washington state judge is going to want to transfer the judgement to the Washington? Or even inside the US if she moves to a different state. This is a judgement that a sitting US senator attacked, it doesn't get more contested than that. And contested is all Knox would need to prove.
Except with England we don't even have any treaties recognizing foreign judgements, so they start weak. Lets not forget the Tea Party just won 60 seats and a few Senate seats. That's a group of people who I think would like to repeal many of the extra territorial rules governing judgements between states, much less allow foreign courts to rule Americans.
I mean don't get me wrong if she ever goes abroad, or tries to keep money abroad she's screwed. Amanda thinks she's going to be able to live in Europe, which I highly highly doubt. And then the Kercher's could pull out the, " Brussels Convention on Jurisdiction and the Enforcement of Judgments in Civil and Commercial Matters" and take every penny she has.
I'm not even worried about the civil stuff. Lets just get her home.
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snook,
That's not exactly my position. If the knife and bra clasp evidence is determined to be unreliable, I will no longer consider the lovebirds guilty of murder. (Whether the court so decides is another matter.) I still won't consider them innocent. I'll be undecided.
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Hi Fine.
First, kudos for giving to the Knox Defense Fund.
So in your view without the DNA evidence on the knife and bra clasp they are not guilty due to reasonable doubt?
BTW - that could explain the judge's ruling ordering the independent review and deferring other tests/re-examination of evidence the defense wanted. No need to review anything else if the DNA evidence goes out the window and voila (sorry French not Italian
) you have reasonable doubt.komponisto
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(1) Why do you currently consider them guilty of murder?
(2) What would convince you that they are innocent?
snook1
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Well, let's say it's a fair enough answer.
But still, as asked previously, what makes you believe that they're guilty? The bra clasp and the knife evidence?
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