Gaza - A 5 Star Concentration Camp *****

[a_unique_person]

Isn't there a bit you're leaving out, like that it's not at all uncommon for cease fire lines to break as soon as the cease fire does?

eta:l I think bigjelmapro summed it up pretty well as "the dimwitted notion that armistice lines between 2 belligerent states, after 2 additional wars, is somehow transferrable to a 3rd party."

Are you suggesting that the Palestinians get a larger amount of land?

 

[a_unique_person]

Isn't there a bit you're leaving out, like that it's not at all uncommon for cease fire lines to break as soon as the cease fire does?

eta:l I think bigjelmapro summed it up pretty well as "the dimwitted notion that armistice lines between 2 belligerent states, after 2 additional wars, is somehow transferrable to a 3rd party."

That coincidentally was the line across which Palestinians weren't granted citizenship. What was magical about that?

 

[The Fool]

So now you're ridiculing the idea that wars can change borders?

Oooh, good one!

of course not, you are again reading my post and seeing something else. Of course Wars can change borders....but normally the new border would be noted wouldn't it? The new borders would be part of the agreement ending the war. What was the border that replaced the green line when it was supposedly voided? Can you show what was agreed as the new borders?

 

[Mycroft]

of course not, you are again reading my post and seeing something else. Of course Wars can change borders....but normally the new border would be noted wouldn't it? The new borders would be part of the agreement ending the war. What was the border that replaced the green line when it was supposedly voided? Can you show what was agreed as the new borders?

Oh, I'm sorry, did I misunderstand you? Maybe if you'd voice an opinion once in a while rather than just spew sarcasm all the time, you would be better understood. I now understand that your ridiculing the idea that wars change borders should not be interpreted as ridiculing the idea that wars change borders.

But to answer your question, both Egypt and Jordan have negotiated peace Israel, and the borders of those two countries are now quite distinct. The Palestinians have not.

 

[Thunder]

Alan Baker = Neo-zionism connection, just as non-existent as the 1949 armistice line and its application ('in effect') as a current border demarcation.

"Israel has never expressed any intention to colonize the territories, to confiscate land, nor to displace the local population for political or racial reasons, nor to alter the demographic nature of the area."

"Israel has not taken any step to alter the status of the territory, which is open for determination in the Permanent Status negotiations. Israel's settlement activity does not alter the status of the territory."

Non-existent........ay?

translation: "Do not bother me with facts that counter my ideological position, for I shall deny them in a NY minute".




As Bit Pattern would say, the denial in this thread is ridiculous.

 

[WildCat]

I wasn't aware that wars voided borders. Does that mean that the borders between France and Germany are voided? After all, there was WW1 and WW2......

Are you claimng the border between France and Germany did not change between 1914 and 1919?

 

[Thunder]

How can a former ambassador actually claim that Israel has shown no intention to confiscate any land in the West Bank, or change the demographic nature of the West bank?

Israel has confiscated thousands and thousands of acres to build settlements, and has settled hundreds of thousands of Israelis, significantly altering the demographic status of the West Bank.

And the settlements do not alter the status of the territory? that's BS, considering the route of the Seperation Wall incorporates many of these settlements.

this guy is either a total liar..or on crack.

either way, his views on the subject matter are irrelevant, based on his rediculous and absurd assertions.

nevermind the fact that he wants immigration of Muslims to Canada halted, since this may affect Canada's policies regarding Israel.

 

[bigjelmapro]

"Israel has never expressed any intention to colonize the territories, to confiscate land, nor to displace the local population for political or racial reasons, nor to alter the demographic nature of the area."

"Israel has not taken any step to alter the status of the territory, which is open for determination in the Permanent Status negotiations. Israel's settlement activity does not alter the status of the territory."

Non-existent........ay?

Deflection. Determining Alan Baker as a Neo-Zionist cannot be determined from the above excerpts.

Judging by the skimming over the rest of the posts in regular fashion, I can only determine that you have no counter-argument for the 1949 armistice lines between Israel and Jordan still being 'in effect' at present and ever since post-1967.

Moving on.

 

[bigjelmapro]

And the settlements do not alter the status of the territory? that's BS, considering the route of the Seperation Wall incorporates many of these settlements.

So now Israel is not observing the 1949 armistice line and is encroaching on alleged Palestinian land? Take time to observe the contradiction of your stance, all on the same page.

nevermind the fact that he wants immigration of Muslims to Canada halted, since this may affect Canada's policies regarding Israel.

Point out where in the article linked where this is the case (ie halting Muslim immigration to Canada).

 

[Safe-Keeper]

I wasn't aware that wars voided borders.

Tell that to the Finns. Who, by the way, somehow manage to not fire rockets into the occupied territories, blow themselves up in Russian public places, or elect leaders who promise the annihilation of the Russian Federation. The people living in the occupied territories don't even throw rocks at Russian tanks.

 

[a_unique_person]

So now Israel is not observing the 1949 armistice line and is encroaching on alleged Palestinian land?

The US seems to think that is what is happening, Israel itself used to regard that as being the case. Many Israeli's do not believe the occupied areas are Israeli land.

 

[Thunder]

While the line is a temporary border, in practice it is used to differentiate between those areas which are administered as part of the State of Israel, and the areas outside it, which are administered by the Israeli military or the Palestinian National Authority.[4][5] The extended municipality of Jerusalem constitutes one exception to this: although the parts ruled by Jordan until 1967 fall outside the Green Line, Israel has informally annexed them according to the BasicJerusalem Law (1980).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Line_(Israel

 

[bigjelmapro]

The US seems to think that is what is happening, Israel itself used to regard that as being the case. Many Israeli's do not believe the occupied areas are Israeli land.

Still doesn't support your statment that the Oslo accords states the 1949 armistice lines as de facto borders.

Anything else?

 

[Thunder]

For those who are confused, THIS is the State of Israel. Everything outside of these lines (except for the Golan Heights) is not recognized by the international community or even Israel itself, as being part of the Jewish State.

 

[The Fool]

For those who are confused, THIS is the State of Israel. Everything outside of these lines (except for the Golan Heights) is not recognized by the international community or even Israel itself, as being part of the Jewish State.

[qimg]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Israel_green_lines.png/150px-Israel_green_lines.png[/qimg]

apparently these borders are voided by something.....so It appears that where Israel is or isn't is a big unknown....sort of like a shimmering mirage in the middle east.

 

[Thunder]

apparently these borders are voided by something.....

yes, by something.

international law?

Israeli law?

Israeli Supreme Court ruling?

no one knows. but if a JREF Neo-Zionist says its so..then it must be so.

 

[bigjelmapro]

Yeehaw, neo-zionist all around whilst not even knowing 1 iota about what a neo-zionist is.

1949 armistice line, still not 'in effect', still not transferrable to a 3rd party following 2 additional wars, all points still apply.

 

[a_unique_person]

Yeehaw, neo-zionist all around whilst not even knowing 1 iota about what a neo-zionist is.

1949 armistice line, still not 'in effect', still not transferrable to a 3rd party following 2 additional wars, all points still apply.

So, the Palestinians can't have it, so Israel gets it as an unclaimed item? Or did you mean that since the line isn't a border, the Palestinians can bargain for much more than the WB and Gaza?

 

[bigjelmapro]

So, the Palestinians can't have it, so Israel gets it as an unclaimed item? Or did you mean that since the line isn't a border, the Palestinians can bargain for much more than the WB and Gaza?

So you found in the Oslo accords that states the 1949 armistice line between Israel and Jordan to be de facto borders yet or you just going to continue caking on deflecting questions?

I'll keep asking this until it gets through to you.

 

[a_unique_person]

So you found in the Oslo accords that states the 1949 armistice line between Israel and Jordan to be de facto borders yet or you just going to continue caking on deflecting questions?

I'll keep asking this until it gets through to you.

Where is the mention of the border in the Norther Ireland peace accords? It was just one of those points that was so obvious, no one realised that someone would actually question it. Even the US, Israel's strongest supporter, knows what the border was going to be, and continually criticises Israel for subverting it with settlements. You can act like it matters, but you won't convince anyone besides the die hard supporters that Oslo was about anything else. By acting as you are, you are just discrediting Israel and it's International reputation.