Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Bingo!
There are several reasons for the family to have hired Marriott PR. One of them is to publicize the case in a sympathetic fashion, receive charitable contributions, to pay the damn legal bills.

And anyone who doubts whether Marriott has been deeply involved in controlling the message, may wish to re-read pages 84 -90 of Barbie's Angel Face:
"... a two-year battle against the Seattle message machine, incurring personal attacks and outright threats." (page 88)

(CDHost, as a matter of principle, I too have contributed to the Amanda Defense Fund. Whether she's guilty or not she's entitled to a first class defense---which is expensive---without bankrupting her family. Still, it's troubling that the family won't publicly disclose the amount contributed to the Defense Fund. Maybe Charlie will ask the family for a clarification on this matter???)

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I don't consider Barbie a credible source. She continues to push outdated tabloid trash that was refuted long ago. Just so everyone knows, I have never spoken to David Marriott. I see nothing wrong with Amanda's family hiring someone to help schedule interviews to make people aware of the injustice that has been committed against their daughter.

The PMF/TJMK talking points being pushed about the so called "million dollar" PR firm are completely inaccurate. Isn't it best to stick with the truth and avoid making statements about topics we know nothing about? No one in Fine's group, including Fine, has any idea about anything David Marriott does for Amanda's family. Why speculate about something that you have no knowledge of?
 
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A drug conviction is not needed to discredit his testimony. Curatolo was shown to be confused about what days he was talking about. This has been discussed in great detail. With the lifestyle he leads it would be very normal for his days to run together and confusion would certainly not be unusual.

Now let's talk about the drug charge. First of all, he is innocent until proven guilty. I am not here to suggest that I know whether or not he is a drug dealer. If he is convicted it would definitely further damage his credibility. Would you be comfortable with the testimony of a homeless drug dealer if it was your son or daughter on trial?

I usually download books from Barns and Noble to read on my iPad.

I guess I'll have to download the kindle reader and Injustice in Perugia from Amazon.com to my iPad and read that way.
 
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?--"Who watches the watchmen?"

I can understand the desire to avoid corruption that might result from having political influence brought to bear on the court system, but it appears to me that there's another danger as well. The beauty of democratic forms of government is if the electorate gets sick of the current crop of clowns in charge they can send them to the showers singing 'won't get fooled again.'

That doesn't seem to be an option within the Italian Court system regarding their prosecutors. I once asked Machiavelli who had the power to retire Mignini from this case and it turned out there's just one old guy in Rome who would never do such a thing, at least that's the impression I got.

Totally incredible.
 
I usually download books from Barns and Noble to read on my iPad.

I guess I'll have to download the kindle reader and Injustice in Perugia from Amazon.com to my iPad and read that way.

From what I hear, books look good on iPad. You can download everything you need right from Amazon. The book will be available on Barnes & Noble within a few weeks. The paperback will also be online shortly.
 
From what I hear, books look good on iPad. You can download everything you need right from Amazon. The book will be available on Barnes & Noble within a few weeks. The paperback will also be online shortly.

You do a tremendous job Bruce, and I very much look forward to reading your book.
 
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I noticed that Hendry managed to mis-identify which stab wound to Meredith's neck was the fatal wound.

Wounds and injuries suffered by Meredith Kercher, by Ron Hendry HERE

In fact, it wasn't the largest wound which severed her thyroid artery, leading to her internal bleeding and death. See Massei Report, English Translation, pages 140 -141, on the PMF website.

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Experts that I have spoken with make it very clear that the large wound was a mortal wound. It is certainly possible that Meredith suffered multiple mortal wounds. There is no doubt that the large wound was mortal.
 
That doesn't seem to be an option within the Italian Court system regarding their prosecutors. I once asked Machiavelli who had the power to retire Mignini from this case and it turned out there's just one old guy in Rome who would never do such a thing, at least that's the impression I got.

The Economist has a good line for the battle between the political system and the judiciary in Italy, "the battle between the financial corrupt and the intellectual corrupt".
 
interests

Okay ready the last few page of this thread my only question is.

What are you guys talking about?
How are the points you are bringing up in any way relevant to the question of is Amanda Knox guilty or innocent?

vwgub,

What aspect of the case would you like to discuss?
 

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Here's another one, Rose. An Italian Forum, begun two days after Meredith's death. More information on Raffaele, and his family, than in English-language Forums:

Vivicentro/Translated

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What does this have to do with Amanda Knox's guilt or innocent?

Curatolo is a key witness in the case against knox, the only witness placing them in the vicinity of the cottage in the timeframe immediately before the murder. There are numerous problems with his testimony, including the fact that he repeatedly identified Halloween night not Nov 1st as the night he had seen Amanda and Raffaele.

Curatolo has been marketed by Mignini and by posters on this forum as a dignified, respectable old gentleman fallen on hard times who still wants to come forward and help the authorities solve crimes. Apparently he even smells nice.

The revelation that Curatolo is in fact a heroin dealer peddling poison to Perugia's addicts is something of a blow to this image and will harm his already shaky credibility.
 
Experts that I have spoken with make it very clear that the large wound was a mortal wound. It is certainly possible that Meredith suffered multiple mortal wounds. There is no doubt that the large wound was mortal.

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Bruce,

It is my understanding ---from reading the pathologists' testimony recounted in the Massei Report---that there was exactly one mortal wound, and that wound was the stab wound to the right side of her neck, which severed an artery. But---for purposes of discussion---let's suppose that the larger wound to the left side of her neck was mortal too. (Meaning sufficient to cause death, without medical intervention.) In that case Hendry would still be wrong, or very misleading, since he recognizes only one mortal wound:

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Hendry:

"The knife inflicting the mortal wound was likely thrust with considerable force into the throat to the full depth of the blade. The killer then pulled the knife upward with maximum force increasing the length of the gaping wound. The last one fourth of the wound involved tearing brought about by an extreme upward force being applied by the killer.

To inflict the mortal wound, the killer needed to be solidly positioned and in full control of Meredith’s head. The likely position would be behind and above the victim, using one hand to hold her head backwards in firm contact with the killer’s lower midsection while using the other hand to inflict the mortal wound.

The mortal wound immediately led to copious outward blood loss, while a considerable amount also bled inward into the esophagus. Some of the blood that entered the esophagus was inhaled and expelled through the mouth and nose as aspirated blood drops. Some of the blood expelled through the mouth had a darker and heavier appearance."
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And congratulations, Bruce, on publication of your book.

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Does anyone have any idea why Mr Rag (and others of his ilk) are now putting the length of Knox's night interrogation on 5th/6th November at around 2 hours 45 minutes? I thought the party line was that there was "barely enough time to set the chairs out" before Knox "blurted out" her (false) confession/accusation. But 2.45 hours is of course more than enough time for a progressively coercive approach to have been applied by the surprisingly-numerous-for-a-run-of-the-mill-witness-interview Perugia Flying Squad who were there that night. Has the party line changed....?


My guess would be that now that the 5:45 "spontaneous statement" claim has been debunked, they are trying to distract from the 1:45-5:45 interval by generously allowing that perhaps the intitial part of the interrogation DID take 2 hours and 45 minutes after all (from 11-1:45).

They are hoping this allowance of 2 hours and 45 minutes will satisfy those who are still wondering about the 4 hours of interrogation (by Mignini) from 1:45 to 5:45.
 
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Originally Posted by Mary_H
"Check out all of treehorn's posts on this blog about Amanda's criminal "conviction" in Seattle."

What does this have to do with Amanda Knox's guilt or innocence?


My comment was in response to a poster who asked whether anyone could provide examples of posters who had knowingly promoted misinformation. It addresses Amanda's guilt or innocence in the sense of questioning the credibility of one of her most outspoken detractors.
 
Curatolo is a key witness in the case against knox, the only witness placing them in the vicinity of the cottage in the timeframe immediately before the murder. There are numerous problems with his testimony, including the fact that he repeatedly identified Halloween night not Nov 1st as the night he had seen Amanda and Raffaele.

Curatolo has been marketed by Mignini and by posters on this forum as a dignified, respectable old gentleman fallen on hard times who still wants to come forward and help the authorities solve crimes. Apparently he even smells nice.

The revelation that Curatolo is in fact a heroin dealer peddling poison to Perugia's addicts is something of a blow to this image and will harm his already shaky credibility.


I think it's also worth examining whether Curatolo is a hard-drug user himself. His chronic 10-year stretch of homelessness suggests the possibility of substance abuse problems.
 
I think it's also worth examining whether Curatolo is a hard-drug user himself. His chronic 10-year stretch of homelessness suggests the possibility of substance abuse problems.

If he's handling heroin regularly it would seem likely he's had his nose in the honey jar at least occasionally. It's very unusual for someone moving exclusively in the circles of dealers and junkies not to get involved themselves.
 
Well that may be coming from me. The issue is the time line. There is a timeline on PMF. There is another timeline which comes from head of homicide:

10:40 PM RS + AK arrive at police station for RS to be questioned. He goes in
10:40 PM - 1 AM AK is waiting does her cartwheel, backbend and split
1 AM -- Police determine incorrectly that RS shoe matches bloody footprint and arrest him.
~ 1 AM Napoleoni goes to the vending machine to strike up a conversation about murder. She does not intend to allow Amanda to leave. Napoleoni takes Amanda back to interrogation room
1:45 AM Napoleoni calls in translator and logs Amanda as a suspect. Does not start taping as she should.
1:45- 3:30 Napoleoni turns up the heat. Confronts Amanda about her about text messages. This is when Amanda says she was cuffed twice, called liar.... This is also when Napoleoni says Amanda struck herself.
3:30 Mignini called in.
?? Mignini takes written statement.
5:45 AM Amanda signs police statement

This doesn't agree with the PMF timeline but it actually makes sense.

Ah, the tea and cookies timeline, the one Monica Napoleoni--who's something of a hottie incidentally-- and the other two female officers gave in court. I can't help but note it doesn't match very well with much of anything else, although you posting it did remind me that Raffaele's statement was given at 10:40, for some reason I had gotten it into my head recently that it was 9:40.

It's interesting that in this version we get the impression that the interrogation is merely a nice little chick chat. As I recall, Amanda quickly breaks down when they go through her phone list and 'accuses' Patrick out of the blue for them, after of course plenty of time for the interpreter to be summoned and her to be made a suspect before they even start this friendly little 'interview'--just like it says in the book. Of course it's damned odd that this version doesn't correspond with the time we do know for the first statement, 1:45, she's spent so much time going by the book here and all. It's really kinda weird there's only one statement given in this version too...

Being as she's been so nice about it all, certainly we should forgive her for that minor error of accidentally forgetting to turn on the cameras, shouldn't we? She was just shocked...shocked to hear Amanda 'accuse' Patrick out of the blue like that! Later on she's going to 'risk her job' to make sure Amanda gets something to eat, how could anyone think anything untoward about her little mistake?

Another thing about the tea and cookies chick chat version is it doesn't explain why there's twelve cops eligible for the calunnia charge. Of course when she gave this testimony no one knew there would ever be one...

;)
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For others I'm adding the PMF timeline for contrast:

Nov 5:
2. 1700 Raffaele summoned to the police station. Amanda goes with him and waits in a separate room.
3. 2000 Candlelight vigil for Meredith.
4. Raffaele "breaks."
5. 1040 (at the earliest - Amanda is talking to Filomena about where to live at 1039) Amanda is called in for formal questioning

Nov 6

6. 0145 Amanda becomes a suspect and the interrogation is halted
7. 0545 Amanda (who still has no lawyer) asks to make a spontaneous declaration. In it, she accuses Patrick Lumumba of the murder and claims to have been in the kitchen while Meredith screamed
8. Amanda & RS jailed; police arrest Patrick
9. Amanda writes a spontaneous testament, in which she claims to have spent the evening with Raffaele, but still confusingly writes: "I stand by my statements that I made last night about events that could have taken place in my home with Patrik, but I want to make very clear that these events seem more unreal to me that what I said before, that I stayed at Raffaele's house."
10. Police chief wrongly declares "Caso Chiuso"

In fairness to them, that hasn't been updated in a long time, they abandoned the timeline idea completely. However, outside the first entry it seems to correspond better to everything else than the first story.
 
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I don't consider Barbie a credible source. She continues to push outdated tabloid trash that was refuted long ago. Just so everyone knows, I have never spoken to David Marriott. I see nothing wrong with Amanda's family hiring someone to help schedule interviews to make people aware of the injustice that has been committed against their daughter.

The PMF/TJMK talking points being pushed about the so called "million dollar" PR firm are completely inaccurate. Isn't it best to stick with the truth and avoid making statements about topics we know nothing about? No one in Fine's group, including Fine, has any idea about anything David Marriott does for Amanda's family. Why speculate about something that you have no knowledge of?

Is there any propaganda machine for the Italian government? Where is the effort to trash Amanda's reputation coming from? Is it coming entirely from the prosectution?

Or is it coming from people that believe that people have to be scared into good behaviour by the gods of government.
 
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