Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[LondonJohn]

How are they actively helping the defense? Are they flying experts to Italy to help the defense in the appeal? Are they in contact/discussion with the Italian legal establishment regarding a miscarriage of justice? Are they raising money for the defense? What exactly are they doing other then potificating innocence on the Internet?

Well, the IIP are publicly declaring that they are "working on the review of DNA evidence in the Amanda Knox case":

http://innocenceproject.boisestate.edu/

But I guess you might need to contact them directly to see exactly what they're doing, and where. Stilicho might be able to help you in that regard.

And AFAIK, Ted Simon is an integral part of the defence strategy team, although of course he is not certified to speak in an Italian court room.

 

[LondonJohn]

I don't know. Do you have any more details on this?

Miscarriages of justice often are publicized and eventually overturned through public pressure.

I think it's quite scary if public pressure can overturn a jury decided case. Criminal cases should be decided by juries, not by mobs.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/399936_knox13.html

And public pressure has NEVER overturned a "jury-decided" case in countries with modern judiciaries. Appeal court judges (or judicial panels) overturn criminal cases. And they do so on evidence (or lack thereof), not on pressure from "mobs". Which is what will very likely happen in this particular case.

 

[Alt+F4]

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/399936_knox13.html

That article is almost two years old. So what's gone on with this lawsuit since then?

 

[LondonJohn]

That article is almost two years old. So what's gone on with this lawsuit since then?

That's cos......that's when it happened. You asked, I supplied.

And I suppose you'd have to ask either Mignini or the offices of the WSH what happened since the initial threat was issued by the good Prosecutor. I can take a good guess though.

 

[katy_did]

I don't know. Do you have any more details on this?

Based on LJ's comment above, I'm assuming it must be the West Seattle Herald.

I think it's quite scary if public pressure can overturn a jury decided case. Criminal cases should be decided by juries, not by mobs.

Public pressure doesn't "overturn a jury decided case", it can only cause it to be questioned or reopened (or rather, make it more likely that occurs by focusing attention on the case). It would then be decided on legal grounds - it's not as if the judge says "Right, you've won an internet poll, you're free to go". This is a quote I wrote down a while ago while reading a book on confessions/interrogations:

What is very striking from this study is that the defendants themselves could do very little to have their case reopened. Almost without exception, the defendants were dependent upon the good will of others in proving their innocence. Almost one-third of the cases were reopened because of the persistence and hard work of people who believed in their innocence. These comprised defence solicitors (16%), journalists or authors (11%) and other well-meaning citizens, including the defendants' loyal friends and relatives.

The Cameron Todd Willingham case is one in which a media report played a part in getting the case reexamined (albeit after his execution).

 

[Alt+F4]

That's cos......that's when it happened. You asked, I supplied.

And I suppose you'd have to ask either Mignini or the offices of the WSH what happened since the initial threat was issued by the good Prosecutor. I can take a good guess though.

I can't find any evidence that a lawsuit was ever filed against the West Seattle Herald by Mignini or anyone else involved with the prosecution. It seems to be all hearsay.

 

[katy_did]

I can't find any evidence that a lawsuit was ever filed against the West Seattle Herald by Mignini or anyone else involved with the prosecution. It seems to be all hearsay.

From this BBC report:

Giuliano Mignini told the BBC he had "never visited a psychologist" and he was taking legal action against a US paper that carried the allegations.

Mr Mignini said he was "not happy" about a story on the West Seattle Herald's website last month in which supporters of Amanda Knox say he is believed to be mentally unstable.
[...]
Speaking to the BBC from his office in Perugia, he stressed he was speaking in a personal capacity, and not as the official prosecutor in the Kercher trial.
[...]
Mr Mignini confirmed he has started an action for defamation against the newspaper.

He joked: "I am quite a healthy man. I don't go to the doctor much and I have never visited a psychologist."

Even if we suppose he wasn't quite being honest about having already started legal proceedings and that it was all publicity, it still shows he's obviously aware of what English language publications are writing, which I think was the original point of your question.

 

[RoseMontague]

I think it's quite scary if public pressure can overturn a jury decided case. Criminal cases should be decided by juries, not by mobs.

What I think is scary is if you have been railroaded and you don't have a lawyer that knows the value of the press. The press in "print" is on the decline. It is internet media that is now leading the way, even YouTube has had an impact on changing things. It seems obvious to me that the Italian authorities are quite adept at using the media to influence the people in the direction they want to go and not happy with similar efforts in the opposite direction.

 

[Alt+F4]

Even if we suppose he wasn't quite being honest about having already started legal proceedings and that it was all publicity, it still shows he's obviously aware of what English language publications are writing, which I think was the original point of your question.

My original point was that English-speaking journalists and/or bloggers have no effect on what's going on with this case. The fact that Mignini didn't even bother to follow up on his lawsuit threat proves this. What people post on Internt forums means even less.

Like I said, if you want to help the Knox defense, send them money. You're only deluding yourself if you think what you post online matters as to how this appeal turns out.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

The Thin Blue Line beats the Devil out of me

Alt+F4,

The work of Errol Morris was probably a major factor in the release of Randall Dale Adams. Several blogs, including Liestoppers, durhamwonderland.blogspot.com, and johnincarolina were ahead of the curve on the Duke lacrosse case. IIRC KC Johnson (the host of the second blog above) helped out the defense teams with research.

 

[Alt+F4]

What I think is scary is if you have been railroaded and you don't have a lawyer that knows the value of the press.

Gosh Rose, you know as well as I do that Amanda has a huge, professional PR campaign going on in her behalf. My question is, how's that working for her? How is that influencing the people that matter? I'd say rather poorly.

 

[RoseMontague]

Gosh Rose, you know as well as I do that Amanda has a huge, professional PR campaign going on. My question is, how's that working for her? How is that influencing the people that matter? I'd say rather poorly.

I think the results in the US have been good and I have seen some positive press in the UK as well as in Italy recently. The Sarah Scazzi case is also turning around and causing people to look twice at a case like Raffaele's. The tide is turning in all three countries from what I have seen. I have no idea how much of this is due to that vast "PR campaign".

 

[Malkmus]

Gosh Rose, you know as well as I do that Amanda has a huge, professional PR campaign going on in her behalf. My question is, how's that working for her? How is that influencing the people that matter? I'd say rather poorly.

I'd say word of the injustice has gotten around because of the PR, and that has caused journalists to look into the matter. There are far more articles coming out that criticize and question her guilty verdict/the prosecution's theories/evidence than there are ones proclaiming how just the verdict was. As a matter of fact I can't think of one that does (unless you count articles on TJMK). Maybe they exist, but I think they are in the minority. That's the effect of the PR, IMO. That FBI agents and other experts like David Anderson are speaking out on her behalf is a result of this too.

 

[Alt+F4]

Alt+F4,

The work of Errol Morris was probably a major factor in the release of Randall Dale Adams. Several blogs, including Liestoppers, durhamwonderland.blogspot.com, and johnincarolina were ahead of the curve on the Duke lacrosse case. IIRC KC Johnson (the host of the second blog above) helped out the defense teams with research.

I'm not disagreing with you in regard to these cases but what about the case of Amanda Knox? Totally different, this is an American tried and convicted in a foreign country

Look what happened to Lori Berenson.

 

[LondonJohn]

Gosh Rose, you know as well as I do that Amanda has a huge, professional PR campaign going on in her behalf. My question is, how's that working for her? How is that influencing the people that matter? I'd say rather poorly.

Does she? Who's conducting this "huge, professional PR campaign"? And who's paying for it? Evidence would be good.......

And you've answered your own question here. Why would Knox's family spend large sums of money on US-oriented PR, when it will have zero effect on Knox's appeal? Why wouldn't they spend every penny they can afford (which is to say not really very much) on legal representation and expert witnesses, aimed towards the appeal in Italy?

If Knox remains convicted, then there will have been no point in trying to promote a positive image of her in the US. Conversely if (when) she is acquitted on appeal, she won't have to work hard at all to rehabilitate herself in the eyes of US citizens - and media outlets will be falling over themselves to interview her without any need for expensive PR campaigns.

I'm perfectly willing to accept what I think is close to the truth: that several major US media outlets have concluded that there's a very good chance Knox will get acquitted, and they want to make money out of having preferential access to her if (when) that happens. This may very well be causing them to bend over backwards to accommodate Knox's family right now, in the hope of payback upon Knox's release.

What I don't accept is that there is some sort of huge (and, by extension, expensive) PR machine dedicated to serving Knox's interests. I believe that David Marriott has offered his assistance in a private capacity to help the Knox/Mellas families deal with the avalanche of media requests that they have been continually bombarded with since November 2007, and I believe he's also offered them a small amount of general PR advice (along the lines of how to deal with the media, what sort of things to say, etc).

I repeat: where do you get this idea that there's a well-oiled PR machine out there batting for Knox? Or is it just another myth that's gained traction amongst those who are all too eager to believe it?

 

[Malkmus]

Look what happened to Lori Berenson.

She was freed, right?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Kaosium on PR

Gosh Rose, you know as well as I do that Amanda has a huge, professional PR campaign going on in her behalf. My question is, how's that working for her? How is that influencing the people that matter? I'd say rather poorly.

Alt+F4,

Can you offer proof that a huge, professional PR campaign is going on in her behalf? Kaosium wrote elsewhere, "There are some who maintain that because the Knox family retained a PR firm to handle press requests that is why virtually every American media outlet is giving them generally positive coverage and why so many people have come forward to offer their support from all over the world, including Britain and Italy.

That's not how the world works though, you can't just hire a PR firm and the media dances to your tune, there has to be a compelling case made or they won't have any interest. PR couldn't sell New Coke or the Edsel; it didn't make John Connally or Phil Graham president, and it hasn't gotten the media to campaign for anyone else getting out of jail overseas. It also doesn't explain in the slightest why the British Independent and Guardian have become two of the fiercest advocates of their release.

 

[RoseMontague]

My original point was that English-speaking journalists and/or bloggers have no effect on what's going on with this case. The fact that Mignini didn't even bother to follow up on his lawsuit threat proves this. What people post on Internt forums means even less.

Like I said, if you want to help the Knox defense, send them money. You're only deluding yourself if you think what you post online matters as to how this appeal turns out.

I think you have changed your Mignini argument but that is beside the point. And if you want it reduced to one post on one little thread on a discussion board, then yeah, it would have to be a pretty good post (where is katody, btw?). A lot of posts at a lot of websites, comments and emails, letters, etc may have some impact, who can say or naysay with any certainty at this point?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Eric Volz

Alt+F4,

I wonder if there is some useful information in the experience of Eric Volz, who was suspected of murdering his former girlfriend in Nicaragua. It seems as if Mary Ellen Finnerty decided to pay it forward, with respect to some of the support that she and her son received in the DL case.

 

[Alt+F4]

I repeat: where do you get this idea that there's a well-oiled PR machine out there batting for Knox? Or is it just another myth that's gained traction amongst those who are all too eager to believe it?

In addition to representing AT&T, the Seattle Seahawks and Alaska Airlines, Gogerty Marriott also does PR for....you guessed it, Amanda Knox!

Gogerty Marriott’s work for the family has brought them in touch with all major U.S. news networks – ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and Fox News, as well as independent programs such as Oprah Winfrey and a host of national and international magazines and newspapers.

She's one of their "showcase" clients.

In case you don't know, here's what Gogerty Marriott does:

At Gogerty Marriott we apply campaign strategies, disciplines and tactics to public affairs problems to help our clients achieve their goals.

http://www.gogertymarriott.com/showcase