GM up over 15% since IPO

[Furcifer]

I always used to think of Chevy as the main GM "flagship" brand. Didn't they usually sell more vehicles under the Chevy brand than any other brand?

I believe that was because Chevy was the "econo" line. As soon as they loaded up a vehicle it took on the Pontiac badging.
From a manufacturing standpoint Chevy sold the most frames, so it would be the "flagship" brand. The flagship brand, no quotes, would of course be Cadillac.

 

[NewtonTrino]

I bought a bunch of deep ITM option contracts (JAN 12 22.50) and they are up 35% so far (since 12/20 so less than a month). I feel good about where GM is going and I also consider the stock a bit of a china play. I haven't decided to go long or just take my profits (and of course they could go away if I'm not careful).

 

[Furcifer]

I bought a bunch of deep ITM option contracts (JAN 12 22.50) and they are up 35% so far (since 12/20 so less than a month). I feel good about where GM is going and I also consider the stock a bit of a china play. I haven't decided to go long or just take my profits (and of course they could go away if I'm not careful).

Hey, I was telling people to buy Ford in the "Is GM finished?" thread when it was at a buck something. It's at $18 now.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Hey, I was telling people to buy Ford in the "Is GM finished?" thread when it was at a buck something. It's at $18 now.

And Ford is where it is without taking handouts from Big Brother, and without welshing out on its rightful obligations. Ford is where it is without cheating, as GM did.

As far as I am concerned, there are no longer three great American automobile manufactures. There is only one. There is only one that still stands for what the entire American automobile industry used to stand for. There is only one that is worthy of my business.

GM, in particular, is dead to me. What exists now under its name is a pretender, an impostor; not even a ghost of the real GM.

 

[Furcifer]

And Ford is where it is without taking handouts from Big Brother, and without welshing out on its rightful obligations. Ford is where it is without cheating, as GM did.

As far as I am concerned, there are no longer three great American automobile manufactures. There is only one. There is only one that still stands for what the entire American automobile industry used to stand for. There is only one that is worthy of my business.

GM, in particular, is dead to me. What exists now under its name is a pretender, an impostor; not even a ghost of the real GM.

This seems like a slightly emotional response to what is essentially a figure or logo.

I'm getting my money back. They're repaying the loan. It's not like the banking situation (thankfully my government didn't have to bail them out because they had the foresight to institute rules preventing abuse)

At the end of the day I think what it boils down to is people buy what they can afford. If it suits your needs and you can afford it you'll probably buy it.

Apparently that's what GM is doing.

ETA: maybe that Ford tip wasn't in the GM thread. I did a quick search and couldn't find it. It may have been in another thread at the time. I recall mentioning that although I wouldn't buy GM, Ford was still a good deal.

 

[LTC8K6]

Even if the government doesn't get all its money back when it sells its remaining stock, if the company stays profitable it will pay taxes every year, and its employees will pay taxes. So eventually, the government is almost certainly going to get its money back and more one way or another in the long run.

IIRC, GM got a huge break on taxes in the deal. Doesn't have to pay taxes on it's first $45B in profits. ie, 15-20 years...

 

[Puppycow]

IIRC, GM got a huge break on taxes in the deal. Doesn't have to pay taxes on it's first $45B in profits. ie, 15-20 years...

I looked it up, and it appears that you are correct.

Still, their employees at least (the ones whose jobs were saved) will pay taxes, and won't have to collect unemployment benefits. If they were out of a job they would be receiving money from the government rather than paying taxes to the government.

 

[Puppycow]

And Ford is where it is without taking handouts from Big Brother, and without welshing out on its rightful obligations. Ford is where it is without cheating, as GM did.

As far as I am concerned, there are no longer three great American automobile manufactures. There is only one. There is only one that still stands for what the entire American automobile industry used to stand for. There is only one that is worthy of my business.

GM, in particular, is dead to me. What exists now under its name is a pretender, an impostor; not even a ghost of the real GM.

That's not entirely true. People seem to have forgotten that they did accept some help from the government, although they didn't go through receivership like GM and Chrysler.

Ford Gets $5.9 Billion Government Loan

A $25 Billion Lifeline for GM, Ford, and Chrysler

 

[Cleon]

So, does this mean we'll finally stop hearing people whine about how Obama's a socialist because he "nationalized" GM?




...No, of course it doesn't, who am I kidding...

 

[Doubt]

And Ford is where it is without taking handouts from Big Brother, and without welshing out on its rightful obligations. Ford is where it is without cheating, as GM did.

As far as I am concerned, there are no longer three great American automobile manufactures. There is only one. There is only one that still stands for what the entire American automobile industry used to stand for. There is only one that is worthy of my business.

GM, in particular, is dead to me. What exists now under its name is a pretender, an impostor; not even a ghost of the real GM.

The only reason Ford did not end up like GM and Chrysler is a matter of timing. Things at Ford got very bad before the 2009 collapse. So they were able to get loans when they needed them. Had Ford hit the skids when GM and Chrysler did, they would have been filing for bankruptcy as well.

 

[drkitten]

And Ford is where it is without taking handouts from Big Brother, and without welshing out on its rightful obligations. Ford is where it is without cheating, as GM did.

Nothing "cheating" about it. Restructuring and reprioritizing debts is a standard part of a chapter 11 bankruptcy. The major debt-holders were given the normal opportunity to object to a proposed reorganization, and as a group consented. (Yes, there were a few holdouts; bankruptcy law merely requires a supermajority of each class for a bankruptcy plan to be approved, not unanimity. This is standard business practice, as it keeps the guy who cuts the grass from being able to derail a multibillion dollar reorganization all by himself).

The debt holders consented, because they recognized that they'd rather further back in line for a payout that's likely to be made rather than first in line for nothing.

Business as usual.

 

[drkitten]

We'll never know since the process was subverted, but they would have retained their normal spot in the assets line.

Would you rather be first in line for nothing, or third in line and get something?

Bear in mind that the bondholders voluntarily gave up their spot in the assets line.....

 

[LTC8K6]

Would you rather be first in line for nothing, or third in line and get something?

Bear in mind that the bondholders voluntarily gave up their spot in the assets line.....

We will never know which would have been better, so it's a moot point.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Nothing "cheating" about it. Restructuring and reprioritizing debts is a standard part of a chapter 11 bankruptcy. The major debt-holders were given the normal opportunity to object to a proposed reorganization, and as a group consented.

But none of that is what happened with GM.

 

[drkitten]

But none of that is what happened with GM.

That's simply wrong. Perhaps you missed the entire court battle when the minority stakeholders -- mostly bondholders -- sued to try to prevent the reorganization and were told by the Federal bankruptcy court (Judge Robert Gerber, Southern District of New York, IIRC) as a matter of law that they weren't a large enough plurality to stop it and that the only way to preserve any value for any of the stakeholders, including the bondholders, was to permit the plan to go through?

Really, if you're going to tell lies, you shouldn't tell lies that are so transparently counterfactual.

 

[drkitten]

We will never know which would have been better, so it's a moot point.

No, it's not a moot point. it's the basis on which the bondholders (mostly) made their call, and the basis on which Judge Gerber, the bankruptcy judge, ruled against the minority that was suing to stop the plan.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I bought a bunch of deep ITM option contracts (JAN 12 22.50) and they are up 35% so far (since 12/20 so less than a month). I feel good about where GM is going and I also consider the stock a bit of a china play. I haven't decided to go long or just take my profits (and of course they could go away if I'm not careful).

Of course you did. I suspect you'll also sell right at the exact peak price.

 

[NewtonTrino]

Of course you did. I suspect you'll also sell right at the exact peak price.

Well I'll certainly be selling sometime between now and next january since it's just an option play. Whether I take a long position is TBD.