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Project Astrometria:Global Cooling until 2100?

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So where is Corbyn's metric and blinding Haig? What standard in advance is sed to declare success? Where are the predicions, what levels of events are predicted and then what metric is used to measure them?
 
The problem you're going to have is that it doesn't fit with reality. In reality the world is going to get warmer. We already have very low solar activity, at least of the aforementioned Minima type, and 2010 was very warm. There was also a La Nina.
Tell it to the Russians http://www.gao.spb.ru/english/astrometr/index1_eng.html
Solar activity seems to be picking up again, and the La Nina won't last forever. It's not looking good for cooling, is it? Still, time will tell, and no doubt it'll tell us what it has for the last thirty years or so. No doubt some people still won't be listening, and Corbyn will still be talking.
No, not really. Solar cycle 24 has started late and weak and the next one set to be even weaker.

New Solar Cycle Prediction
"If our prediction is correct, Solar Cycle 24 will have a peak sunspot number of 90, the lowest of any cycle since 1928 when Solar Cycle 16 peaked at 78," says panel chairman Doug Biesecker of the NOAA Space Weather Prediction Center.
"It turns out that none of our models were totally correct," says Dean Pesnell of the Goddard Space Flight Center, NASA's lead representative on the panel. "The sun is behaving in an unexpected and very interesting way."
A classic denial line. Nobody removed any weather stations.
Sure they have: -

NOAA has reduced the number of weather stations they use from 6000 to the number they say on their web site – 1500. So, that’s far more than a 62% reduction, actually a 75% reduction.
http://www.noaa.gov/features/02_monitoring/weather_stations.html

People are, on the whole, stupid.
Your on the money there ;)
Good luck with that, I've never managed to find out who they are. They're into everything, though.
"They" in this case is NOAA. Now what was it you were just saying?

And more importantly, the physical effects are clearly visible.

The obsession with surface temperature measurements is a simple means of distracting from what's actually going on. Droughts, floods, vanishing ice, pests extending their ranges, all the predicted impacts.
Predictions have been made about global warming. i.e. It will continue. The glaciers will all melt. The polar ice-caps will melt and the sea level will rise; coastal regions and islands will be flooded. Weather will become more extreme, with worse droughts and worse floods, and worse storms such as hurricanes. Agriculture will suffer. Terrible political and economic problems will result from all this. And there is the possibility that eventually the global temperature will become so high that human life will cease to be possible at all.

None of the above has happened. The warming of the past 100 years has been due to an active Sun from solar cycle 17 to 23. With solar cycle19 being the most active and solar cycles 21 to 23 showing a steady decline with the current cycle 24 and the next cycle 25 set to continue the trend.

This will lead to a Maunder Minimum type event just as it has in the past. Global cooling has far more serious consequences than global warming has for us, crops just don’t grow very well in the cold.
See solar cycle 24,25,26 etc.... on to the year 2100 (approx) in the graph in this pdf. This pattern we are entering has happened before.
http://www.gao.spb.ru/english/astrometr/The Sun dictates the climate of the Earth.pdf
He doesn't understand "inside the box" variation versus a forcing....

Pinatubo and fossil C02 are forcing...

Enso ( NAO etc ) is just shuffling the energy around in different spots at different times - it neither heats nor cools globally but engages the ocean with the atmosphere differently and so affects local climate regimes.

and Daly is a fraud.

read the science instead of the cranks who can't even understand energy budgets and radiative balance

http://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/~atw/enso/
Thanks for this site http://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/~atw/enso/ to, as you say, “read the science instead of the cranks” but it has quite a few broken or not found links. Seems it has fallen into disuse: - Last Updated: August 2004

In a short search I found these two mainstream papers from 2007 and 2009 (the first one is only a draft, about times 12k in the past and the second says its result is speculative but it’s a start)

ENSO as a mediator of the solar influence on climate
7. Conclusions
“We propose that, given amid-to-high-range amplitude of Holocene solar irradiance variations, ENSO may have acted as one of the mediators between the Sun and the Earth’s climate.”

“So far, data from the past millennium and the longer Holocene seem to support our view. As more complete - and presumably more accurate - climate records become available, especially from the Southern Hemisphere, we hope that our mechanism can be tested in greater detail and on longer periods.”
https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~wsoon/BinWang07-d/EmileGeayCaneetal07-2006PA001304-pip.pdf

QBO in solar wind speed and its relation to ENSO
Abstract
Corotating coronal holes of the Sun induce fluctuations of the solar wind speed in the vicinity of the Earth. The fluctuations of solar wind speed are closely correlated with geomagnetic activity. Solar wind speed has been monitored by satellites since the mid 1960s. The long-term series of solar wind speed show enhanced amplitudes at the solar rotation period 27.3 days and at its harmonics 13.6 and 9.1 days. The amplitude series are modulated by a quasi-biennial oscillation (QBO) with a period of 1.75a (21 months) as bispectral analysis reveals. A 1.75a QBO component is also present in the equatorial, zonal wind of the stratosphere at 30 hPa, in addition to the well-known QBO component at the period 2.4a (29 months). The solar wind QBO may influence the stratospheric QBO, the global electric circuit, and cloud cover by modulation of ionospheric electric fields, cosmic ray flux, and particle precipitation. For a further analysis, the series of solar wind speed fluctuations are bandpass-filtered at the period 1.75a. The filtered series provide the amplitude of the solar wind QBO as function of time. The maxima of the solar wind QBO series are correlated with those of the ENSO index. The analysis indicate that the solar wind QBO may trigger the ENSO activity. This result is speculative at the moment. However, the focus of the study is on the investigation of the long-term modulations of the short-term (4–45 days) oscillations of the solar wind speed which are quite unexplored yet.
So where is Corbyn's metric and blinding Haig? What standard in advance is sed to declare success? Where are the predicions, what levels of events are predicted and then what metric is used to measure them?
DD do you really want a re-run of this like last year? He’s NOT what this thread is about. Merely an example, of the view, that external forcing drives our weather AND climate and they are predictable and natural.

Piers Corbyn has been independently assessed HERE and HERE this last one in 2009 giving him the 85% success rate claimed.

Why don’t you check out his warnings and predictions for yourself DD (for free) then even you might be impressed? You could pick all the metric and blinding you want, maybe even go double-blind as in the best scientific method.

http://www.weatheraction.com/displayarticle.asp?a=294&c=5

http://www.weatheraction.com/displayarticle.asp?a=295&c=5

http://www.weatheraction.com/displayarticle.asp?a=296&c=5
 
Mocked meteorologist gets last laugh
Now it is confirmed that Dec 2010 in Britain and probably West Europe, was indeed the coldest for 100 years (at least!) – as we predicted* in the face of the opinion of all other forecasters; and that the USA has also been suffering exceptional cold and blizzards – including our specifically predicted ‘monster blizzard’ of Xmas 2010 in New York and NE / E USA, the beleaguered community of ‘warmist’ Climate ‘science’ and meteorology is in a ‘climate chaos’ of its very own. *See WANews10No38.pdf

Apart from certain charlatans who copy-cat our long range forecasts most standard meteorology holds, as always, that the weather should get back to ‘normal’ very soon and the warmist idealogues declare that cold means warm. In the face of this I say:

1.Our forecast for an exceptionally cold and also snowy January in Britain & West Europe stands and despite its unlikely occurrence according to standard views we expect with 80% confidence that much of Britain (eg Central England) to be in the three coldest Januaries in the last 100 years. It also follows that the winter of 2010-11 will probably be one of the two or three coldest in 100 years as suggested in our Essence of winter sponsored forecast made public on 30th November -WANews10No37.pdf . The CAUSE OF THIS IS PHYSICS which enables us to predict how solar-lunar effects change the jet stream for example and is nothing whatsoever to do with CO2 from man or nature.

2.The ‘Cold means Warm’ incantations of the Global warmists are the last gasps of a failed cult for whom some delusional expectation is not being realized. Recall this same Global Warmers movement – renamed Climate Change – had told us that snow in Britain would soon be a thing of the past, that winters in the USA would get warmer and warmer and Himalayan glaciers were disappearing and so on and on. All their predictions have failed. Their self-serving belief system – which is akin to a sect – is morally, intellectually and scientifically bankrupt and should be given no quarter.

3.They will of course claim under their ‘data’ that 2010 was close to the warmest ever year. This is fraud. On that one should note that since 1950 the coldest decade in their data set was around 1971 to 80 for which there were the most weather stations, and that since then they removed 62% of stations so the decade 2001-2010 with the least number of stations becomes the warmest! See slide 9 in the presentation http://www.weatheraction.com/displayarticle.asp?a=222&c=1 What would be the result from the 62% of deleted stations?

4.Their cold is warm pronouncement in fact mean that the measures of world temperature are of no value whatsoever in predicting what matters – whether or not your freeway will become an ice rink or whether there will be floods next summer. If their measure of climate has no bearing on what we experience it is of no value. What is needed is real long range forecasts and these can be provided using physics – involving particle, magnetic and lunar effects – and are nothing to do with CO2 hocus pocus, which is a POLITICAL game.

This year this who care will have to fight like never before FOR evidence-based, science and policies and to call politicians to account and get rid of all the dangerous and crippling carbon scams and taxes and insist instead on only honest green measures such as defending biodiversity.

At the core we must put scientific advance to the benefit of people and not let pseudo-science strangle us. WeatherAction will continue to expand the scope and skill of long-range solar-lunar based forecasts and insist that Governments and media make use of our warnings to reduce misery and save lives.

Thank you.
no, thankyou piers..you need a good haircut but besides that you are a good honest man..telling the truth..and making the met office look like a kindergarten..listen to this man..he is spot on..
 
Mocked meteorologist gets last laugh
no, thankyou piers..you need a good haircut but besides that you are a good honest man..telling the truth..and making the met office look like a kindergarten..listen to this man..he is spot on..
No thanks piers.
You are a bad man beacuse you are killing people around the world by keeping your long range weather forecasting method a secret.

But that does not really matter because piers is also deluding into thinking that his method actually works. The audited forecasts have a sucess rate of 85%. That is not much better then picking a random set of days in winter and saying that one of more will be very wet.
The real killer is all of the extreme weather events that he has probably missed. For example I did not see any forecast of the Queensland floods.

Haig: Are you brave enough to test your almost religious faith in Piers by seeing how many of the extreme weather events listed by NCDC he predicted?
 
NOAA has reduced the number of weather stations they use from 6000 to the number they say on their web site – 1500. So, that’s far more than a 62% reduction, actually a 75% reduction.
http://www.noaa.gov/features/02_monitoring/weather_stations.html
Thanks for supplying the reference.

So do you believe that the satellite temperatures which agree with the weather station temperatures have been faked? After all they both show global warming.
Or is it more likely that the decrease in the number of stations had little effect on the accuracy of the recorded temperatures.

Predictions have been made about global warming. i.e. It will continue. The glaciers will all melt. The polar ice-caps will melt and the sea level will rise; coastal regions and islands will be flooded. ...
None of the above has happened.
You are wrong. The predictions are that these will happen, not that they have happened by now.

However
The warming of the past 100 years has been due to an active Sun from solar cycle 17 to 23. With solar cycle19 being the most active and solar cycles 21 to 23 showing a steady decline with the current cycle 24 and the next cycle 25 set to continue the trend.
Wrong: In the last 35 years of global warming, sun and climate have been going in opposite directions.

This will lead to a Maunder Minimum type event just as it has in the past.
This could lead to Maunder Minimum type event just as it has in the past.
The Maunder Minimum hapened in the middle of the Little Ice Age. It was a contributer to but not a cause of the Little Ice age.
What would happen if the sun fell to Maunder Minimum levels?

DD do you really want a re-run of this like last year? He’s NOT what this thread is about. Merely an example, of the view, that external forcing drives our weather AND climate and they are predictable and natural.
Haig - that is basic climate science. The external forcings that drive our climate are extensively studied. They are predictable and natural. The observations are that they are being overwhelmed by the internal forcings such as CO2 levels.

Piers Corbyn has been independently assessed HERE and HERE this last one in 2009 giving him the 85% success rate claimed.
The second link is to the audit he comissioned for his predictions. It ignores the weather events that he did not predict.
The first link has already been addressed (it is a rather flawed paper on old predictions). Citing it yet again is not a smart move move.
 
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Tell it to the Russians

I don't think I need to after the summer heatwave.

No, not really. Solar cycle 24 has started late and weak and the next one set to be even weaker.

You regard the science as settled on that, do you?

Solar Cycle 24 has indeed started late, and 2010 was a very warm year all the same. Now the cycle involves increasing solar activity for a while, which does not augur well for cooling. We also have a La Nina, and that won't last forever either.


Let's see how that works out, shall we? Predictions are difficult, especially about the future.


Sure they have: -

NOAA has reduced the number of weather stations they use from 6000 to the number they say on their web site – 1500. So, that’s far more than a 62% reduction, actually a 75% reduction.

Over time, stations have gone out of use, but there was no sudden removal in order to manipulate the record - which is what the accusation is. These stations do not regularly report because they haven't been upgraded (consideration has to given to the US American taxpayer, after all). Some no longer exist.

When the returns from these stations were gathered and included in a one-off exercise (at some taxpayer expense), the results indicated a slightly more rapid warming than from the regular stations.

Predictions have been made about global warming. i.e. It will continue. The glaciers will all melt.

Eventually. Quite a few have gone already, and it's early days yet.

The polar ice-caps will melt and the sea level will rise ...

There's only one polar ice-cap, the Antarctic. The prediction is that it will lose mass, particularly in the West Antarctic, and it's doing just that.

Arctic sea-ice was always going to be the canary in the mine, and just look what's happening to that.

... coastal regions and islands will be flooded.

As they will. Polynesian islands are already being regularly inundated.

Weather will become more extreme, with worse droughts and worse floods, and worse storms such as hurricanes.

And it is already so.

Agriculture will suffer.

As it is.

Terrible political and economic problems will result from all this.

As they will. It'll be hard to pick out the AGW influence from all the other stuff, of course. Pakistan was a mess before the floods, but they really didn't help.
And there is the possibility that eventually the global temperature will become so high that human life will cease to be possible at all.

That's ridiculous.

None of the above has happened. The warming of the past 100 years has been due to an active Sun from solar cycle 17 to 23. With solar cycle19 being the most active and solar cycles 21 to 23 showing a steady decline with the current cycle 24 and the next cycle 25 set to continue the trend.

Nonsense. A feature of the 20thCE was how quiet volcanoes have been, after a very active 19thCE. Vulcanism has a cooling influence, so at least some of the early 20thCE warming was the result of that.

If you see a presentation that ignores vulcanism when making a case for "the Sun did it" you can be sure it's rubbish. There is no one simple explanation for climate change in the last century.

The reason for global warming now is the enhanced greenhouse effect due to atmospheric CO2, and it will continue. We're just shading 390ppm now and it's not about to go down.

This will lead to a Maunder Minimum type event just as it has in the past. Global cooling has far more serious consequences than global warming has for us, crops just don’t grow very well in the cold.
See solar cycle 24,25,26 etc.... on to the year 2100 (approx) in the graph in this pdf. This pattern we are entering has happened before.
http://www.gao.spb.ru/english/astrometr/The Sun dictates the climate of the Earth.pdf

You really seem to think this has already happened, that the science is absolutely settled and it's about to get as cold as the 19thCE. When crops grew perfectly adequately in the places they've always been grown, and in new places - the US Mid-West, Australia, Argentina ...

The problem with AGW is that crops will not grow in places where they always have (such as the Indus Valley and parts of China), nor will they grow in some of the new places.
 
See solar cycle 24,25,26 etc.... on to the year 2100 (approx) in the graph in this pdf. This pattern we are entering has happened before.

You were asked "where is the cooling?". You respond by pointing to solar cycles. This is known as "begging the question" - you assume the hypothesis (solar cycles determine temperature) to show that cooling must have happened, which then confirms the hypothesis.

Where is the cooling? The actual cooling, not the solar cycle. Where do you find that?

By the way, Corbyn is sticking to his prediction that Europe will have a very cold and snowy January. I guess his success rate is about to take a small hit.
 
Mocked meteorologist gets last laugh
no, thankyou piers..you need a good haircut but besides that you are a good honest man..telling the truth..and making the met office look like a kindergarten..listen to this man..he is spot on..

So haig, when are you going to address the issue of no established protocol or metric for Corbyn's success, or will you just cut and paste more meaningless information.
 
Piers Corbyn has been independently assessed HERE ...

That covers gale predictions in the UK over two years. I like this :

"The results, whilst differing greatly between the seasons ..."

Oh, I bet they do. Of course there only eight seasons in the whole sample, so that could just be chance. On the other hand, predicting gales in November or January is likely to work out.

... and HERE this last one in 2009 giving him the 85% success rate claimed.

Independently assessed? Do you trust credit-rating agencies as well? Your gullibility makes you a danger to yourself, frankly.

This one, as I've mentioned, was even shorter and this time restricted to the US. Corbyn chose the period and the region. You're OK with that?

Why don’t you check out his warnings and predictions for yourself DD (for free) then even you might be impressed? You could pick all the metric and blinding you want, maybe even go double-blind as in the best scientific method.

...

http://www.weatheraction.com/displayarticle.asp?a=296&c=5[/quote]

This is bloody hilarious. He starts with a gratuitous attack on the BBC (which is ideological anathema to Corbyn, being a public institution) :

"As the BBC reports on the massive floods now - 11 Jan - hitting Brisbane you can almost feel them wailing about the "almost unprecedented wall of water..." - with all its Global warming CO2 extremes innuendo ..."

The BBC failed to mention AGW, so Corbyn declares they implied it - but why does "wall of water" imply AGW? Only Corbyn knows.

He continues :

"... except locals in a matter-of-fact manner ruin the show by saying it is unprecedented since 1974. Or if you look at more details unprecedented since the years of floods centred around 1973-74**."

It's a very odd wall of water that's "centred around 1973-74". Why 1973, when the Brisbane flood was in 1974? What are these "details" that the guru is conversant with, but spares the rest of us? Here's the answer :

"2011-1973 = 38 = 2 x 19yr eclipse cycle"

So the Brisbane flood must have been in 1973, not (as the newspapers had it at the time) 1974. Simple really. And the "wall of water" reference is to flash-floods in another place, Toowoomba, not Brisbane. Details, details ...

No mention of the dam which was built after the 1974 flood to prevent this kind of thing happening again. It got to 190% planned capacity, I gather. They've been letting water out, obviously : imagine the wall of water if it broke.

So what does Corbyn conclude from this? Prepare to be unsurprised :

"
So the floods are nothing to do with CO2!
"

He then goes on to predict more floods during the rainy season, with the ground sodden and unprecedentedly warm oceans near Australia. I for one am not impressed.
 
See solar cycle 24,25,26 etc.... on to the year 2100 (approx) in the graph in this pdf. This pattern we are entering has happened before.
http://www.gao.spb.ru/english/astrometr/The Sun dictates the climate of the Earth.pdf

wow thanks for that link.
while i don't understand any Russian it seems pretty scary.
we have increasing temperatures despite lesser solar activity.

but as you seem to have misunderstood my question.
the paper you linked me to seems not to deal with temperatures.
i ask again. can you show me the cooling you was speaking of?
 
Why don’t you check out his warnings and predictions for yourself DD (for free) then even you might be impressed? You could pick all the metric and blinding you want, maybe even go double-blind as in the best scientific method.

I could but it is not my claim to defend. (I am also an apprentice training in malware removal right now, keeps my free time busy)
 
Warm and wet here in Europe, with no warning from Corbyn (who'd have us hunkered down against the cold). Some flooding, with rainfall and snowmelt going on. Fortunately we have weather services that gave good warning.
 
wow thanks for that link.
while i don't understand any Russian it seems pretty scary.
we have increasing temperatures despite lesser solar activity.

Yes, but the phase of the Moon has a strong influence, on Corbyn at least.

but as you seem to have misunderstood my question.
the paper you linked me to seems not to deal with temperatures.
i ask again. can you show me the cooling you was speaking of?

It's on the Moon, I'll be bound. You'll notice that there were no floods on the Moon 38 years ago (2 * 19 years, a double Lunar cycle), and there are no floods there now. Score another success for Corbyn.

I suspect that this double effect (twin solar cycles, twin Lunar cycles) is what lies at the heart of Corbyn's revelatory insight. People have been searching for a solar-cycle signal in climate for almost two centuries, and a lunar signal of a quite different sort for even longer, but the double-double thing ... I think that's new.

This dualism is all rather Buddhist in conception, and Corbyn is a child of the 60's (if you take account of details, such as him being a late-developer). If you look it the right way it all becomes clear.

Now my method is thoroughly scientific, and includes the influence of Sirius. Subscription is required if anyone wants detaqils.
 
Excuse this and other late posts I’ve been too busy to reply, until now.
No thanks piers.
You are a bad man beacuse you are killing people around the world by keeping your long range weather forecasting method a secret.
Don’t you pay your weather forecasters were you are? :)
But that does not really matter because piers is also deluding into thinking that his method actually works. The audited forecasts have a sucess rate of 85%. That is not much better then picking a random set of days in winter and saying that one of more will be very wet.
Ah! So you didn’t mean what you said before ;)
The real killer is all of the extreme weather events that he has probably missed. For example I did not see any forecast of the Queensland floods.
He does his best, it’s just him and a small team working from a tiny office in London and you want him to cover the whole world? Get real RC.

However, he HAS made forecasts about the Queensland floods. “As shown in WA2011NewsNo1* Queensland & Australian floods show a very strong tendency to occur at a certain phase of the 19yr eclipse cycle.” “SIGNIFICANT FLOODS in SouthWest Queensland 25-29 Jan.”
http://www.weatheraction.com/displayarticle.asp?a=296&c=5
Haig: Are you brave enough to test your almost religious faith in Piers by seeing how many of the extreme weather events listed by NCDC he predicted?
Nope RC.I haven’t the time, maybe you could do it?

I don’t have faith RC I’m non-religious but I do like Piers style and the way his correct predictions winds your side up. We both know why that is, right?

If someone can predict the weather and climate weeks, months and even up to a year in advance, using the influences of the Sun modulated by the Moon, then that means AGW is NOT significant and the carbon tax to save the planet is a con.

Here’s one of his forecasts lets see if it’s right:

2011 - Another year of weather extremes warns Piers
“Solar-lunar driven major jet stream blocking will continue through January and the whole of 2011 giving more extreme cold and snowy / blizzardy spells in parts of USA, Britain and Europe though January continuing into February and then not the sort of Spring and Summer the warmists want.”
http://www.weatheraction.com/docs/WANews11No1.pdf
Thanks for supplying the reference.
Your welcome.
So do you believe that the satellite temperatures which agree with the weather station temperatures have been faked? After all they both show global warming
I don’t “believe” anything but facts and there ARE doubts surrounding that satellite data.

"The NASA data is being wrongly interpreted. The satellite shots of the Pacific show hot water areas around the coasts of most Pacific Nations. The problem is that that heating is actually caused by hundreds, if not thousands, of undersea volcanoes which are continuously erupting around the Pacific rim, and also along all the areas where the tectonic plates meet and are riding over each other.
This is the cause of some of the Antarctic ice melting, there is a group of volcanoes underneath the sea, just off the Antarctic shore."

And this too

"There is nothing wrong with the data. It is the interpretation of the data that sucks!
I am assuming that the satellite data has now been corrected for decay and the IPCC IR 2007 reporting of “no significant lower tropospheric warming” has now been gleefully re-found.
I am beginning to drown in data representations. I really liked the IR data presentation because it allowed a good visual representation of the Temp change and its geographic location per station. I hate interpreted or smoothed or corrected data!
I have seen some representations of the N vs. S hemisphere that I find interesting, but it is all some form of cherry picking or another.
Can anyone answer me as to why the 0.8 degree temperature increase, apparently unrelated to “natural phenomenon” but to AGW by the IPCC, came out of nowhere and disappeared into nothingness as quickly as it appeared? Did man somehow sacrifice goats or something to the AGW Gods and get a short term indulgence? If 1998 is AGW created, as the IPCC say, then we must have found a cure and then lost the recipe?
Maybe, just maybe, it is virtually all natural and that natural rate of rise is 0.0134 degrees per year or 1.03 degrees C per century!"

How about this RC?

Hansen’s “Hottest Year Ever” Based on Fabricated Data
“It is clear from the following sections that NOAA performs manipulations to create false impressions from the data, including assigning temperature increases were there is zero data.”
http://climategate.tv/tag/temperature-data/
Or is it more likely that the decrease in the number of stations had little effect on the accuracy of the recorded temperatures.
No, less likely:

"NASA was able to put a man on the moon, but the space agency can’t tell you what the temperature was when it did. By its own admission, NASA’s temperature records are in even worse shape than the besmirched Climate-gate data.

E-mail messages obtained by a Freedom of Information Act request reveal that NASA concluded that its own climate findings were inferior to those maintained by both the University of East Anglia’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) — the scandalized source of the leaked Climate-gate e-mails — and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s National Climatic Data Center.

The e-mails from 2007 reveal that when a USA Today reporter asked if NASA’s data “was more accurate” than other climate-change data sets, NASA’s Dr. Reto A. Ruedy replied with an unequivocal no. He said “the National Climatic Data Center’s procedure of only using the best stations is more accurate,” admitting that some of his own procedures led to less accurate reading"
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/03/30/nasa-data-worse-than-climategate-data/

And this example about NASA is also interesting:

“Here you can see that NASA keeps revising their historical temperature data for the USA, with no explanation of why.

Here's the current version:
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.D.txt

Here are various older versions:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.D.txt

According to NASA, the six warmest years on record in the 48 contiguous United States were:
#1: 1934
#2: 1998
#3: 1921
#4: 2006
#5: 1931
#6: 1999

I chose to list the "six warmest" (instead of five or ten) because it happens that these six years are the warmest on record in all the versions of the NASA temperature table which I could find, though the order of the six varies according to which version of the table you use.

The hottest year used to be listed as 1934, but 1934 has now been demoted to 3rd-hottest, behind 1998 and 2006.

There's no explanation for these changes to what is SUPPOSED to be stable historical data.”
Posted by: Dave Burton | May 27, 2010

You are wrong. The predictions are that these will happen, not that they have happened by now.

However
You seem to want it all ways – “They will happen but not by now – however, they are happening.” Make your mind up RC

I remember the global warmers saying that snow will soon be a thing of the past. You will have to tell your grandchildren about it because they will never see it again. Well let me tell you mine are up to their ears in the stuff, just now, and they HAVE been in each of the last three, very severe, winters here in the UK.
The climate has ALWAYS been changing RC but it’s not US causing it!

Those faking the data and receiving public funds for their research MAY end up having to face legal action in court:-

State Prosecutor Makes Breakthrough in Climate Case
”The latest initiative follows hot on the heels of last week’s courtroom success for Virginia Attorney General, Ken Cuccinelli against Mann’s former employers at the University of Virginia. The university squandered half a million dollars in a desperate attempt to withhold past records of Mann from Cuccinelli. A court ruling ended such shenanigans”
http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=7023&linkbox=true&position=2
Not when you use the 22 year Hale cycle (magnetic cycle), that's what Piers Corbyn does.

Then there is this:

Official: Satellite Failure Means Decade of Global Warming Data Doubtful by John O'Sullivan guest post at Climate Change Fraud
“US Government admits satellite temperature readings “degraded.” All data taken offline in shock move. Global warming temperatures may be 10 to 15 degrees too high.

The fault was first detected after a tip off from an anonymous member of the public to climate skeptic blog, Climate Change Fraud (view original article) (August 9, 2010).

Caught in the center of the controversy is the beleaguered taxpayer funded National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). NOAA’s Program Coordinator, Chuck Pistis has now confirmed that the fast spreading story on the respected climate skeptic blog is true.

However, NOAA spokesman, Program Coordinator, Chuck Pistis declined to state how long the fault might have gone undetected. Nor would the shaken spokesman engage in speculation as to the damage done to the credibility of a decade’s worth of temperature readings taken from the problematic ‘NOAA-16’ satellite.”
http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=6127

This could lead to Maunder Minimum type event just as it has in the past.
The Maunder Minimum hapened in the middle of the Little Ice Age. It was a contributer to but not a cause of the Little Ice age.
What would happen if the sun fell to Maunder Minimum levels?
Total Solar Irradiance (TSI) is falling:

About the long-term coordinated variations of the activity, radius, total irradiance of the Sun and the Earth’s climate
"The 11-year cycle represents a simultaneous parallel change in both the activity level
and the total irradiance of the Sun. So, in case of variations of the amplitude of the
activity level - a power of a cycle - the amplitude of solar irradiance variations is expected to change correspondingly. The identical correlated course of the long-term variations of activity and luminosity of the Sun on the secular timescale has been observed earlier by Eddy (1976), and Borisenkov (1988). Moreover, according to the data of Borisenkov (1988), in each of 18 deep Maunder-type minima of solar activity, revealed over the span of the last 7500 years, the cooling of climate had been observed, while warming occurred during the periods of high maxima. Thus, the integral radiation has always been essentially higher at the maximum, and it had noticeably decreased at the minima."
http://www.gao.spb.ru/english/astrometr/Symp_223.pdf

And the above JUST considers TSI (sunshine) we know from Piers the hugely varying solar wind and magnetic effects that buffet our magnetosphere drives Earth's weather much more dramatically.
Haig - that is basic climate science. The external forcings that drive our climate are extensively studied. They are predictable and natural. The observations are that they are being overwhelmed by the internal forcings such as CO2 levels.
Don’t be so sure RC:

Dr. Tim Ball: Corruption of Climate Science Has Created 30 Lost Years
“Reduction in the number of weather stations, elimination of raw data by national governments, unexplained manipulations of existing data, lost data by people like Phil Jones, were all done to falsify the results and prevent scrutiny of their work. This couples with failure to fund research to recover and reconstruct historical data. In his autobiography Hubert Lamb said he founded the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) because “it was clear that the first and greatest need was to establish the facts of the past record of the natural climate in times before any side effects of human activities could well be important.” The situation is worse now, sadly due to people at the CRU and government weather agencies”
http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=7001&linkbox=true&position=3

The second link is to the audit he comissioned for his predictions. It ignores the weather events that he did not predict.
Really amazing he does these months in advance over a six month period getting 85% right “the Severe Weather Event Assessment from October 2008 to April 2009. Each event has been independently looked at in turn and verified.” And you try to criticise him for NOT predicting ALL the weather events. If you think about it he was trying to get the best score he could so, I guess, he would only mention those events he was certain would occur. Are there ANY mainstream forecasters able to do that?
Didn’t agree last time or now RC. Piers has had a verification of his Solar Weather Technique in a peer reviewed paper and you can’t take that away from him. Wheeler was a respected scientist and confirmed “these forecasts, which include solar predictors and are prepared 6-11 months in advance of the events they predict” which is quite impressive. http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2001JASTP..63...29W
 
I don't think I need to after the summer heatwave.
Sure you do.
Piers predicted its start and when it would end.

"As Russia recovers from a record-breaking heatwave followed by fierce storms, RT talks to astrophysicist and solar weather forecaster Piers Corbyn to find out what it all means and if it has anything to do with global warming. 22 August 2010"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRRXZ1B5foE&feature=related
You regard the science as settled on that, do you?
Settled - no but the signs are heading that way. Do you regard the science settled on AGW?
Solar Cycle 24 has indeed started late, and 2010 was a very warm year all the same. Now the cycle involves increasing solar activity for a while, which does not augur well for cooling. We also have a La Nina, and that won't last forever either.
Here's what NASA said:

New Solar Cycle Prediction
"Right now, the solar cycle is in a valley--the deepest of the past century. In 2008 and 2009, the sun set Space Age records for low sunspot counts, weak solar wind, and low solar irradiance. The sun has gone more than two years without a significant solar flare."

"In our professional careers, we've never seen anything quite like it," says Pesnell. "Solar minimum has lasted far beyond the date we predicted in 2007."

"In recent months, however, the sun has begun to show timorous signs of life. Small sunspots and "proto-sunspots" are popping up with increasing frequency. Enormous currents of plasma on the sun’s surface ("zonal flows") are gaining strength and slowly drifting toward the sun’s equator. Radio astronomers have detected a tiny but significant uptick in solar radio emissions. All these things are precursors of an awakening Solar Cycle 24 and form the basis for the panel's new, almost unanimous forecast."

http://science.nasa.gov/media/media...oaaprediction_resources/prediction_strip2.jpg

http://science.nasa.gov/media/media...rediction_resources/maunderminimum_strip2.gif

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2009/29may_noaaprediction/
Let's see how that works out, shall we? Predictions are difficult, especially about the future.
Have to agree here but Piers has a better record of predictions than most ;)
Over time, stations have gone out of use, but there was no sudden removal in order to manipulate the record - which is what the accusation is. These stations do not regularly report because they haven't been upgraded (consideration has to given to the US American taxpayer, after all). Some no longer exist.
So you actually believe it's just a coincidence that as the number of weather stations drops from 6000 to 1500 and over the same period, the "reported" global temperature goes UP?
When the returns from these stations were gathered and included in a one-off exercise (at some taxpayer expense), the results indicated a slightly more rapid warming than from the regular stations.
That's all right then :rolleyes:
Eventually. Quite a few have gone already, and it's early days yet.
Interesting that science tells us the Earth's natural state is glacial.
They also reckon this short inter-glacial period of ours is long over due to end.
So a fantastically small amount of Co2 is going to stop that? You're preparing for the wrong extreme.
There's only one polar ice-cap, the Antarctic. The prediction is that it will lose mass, particularly in the West Antarctic, and it's doing just that.
No it's not! It's been growing for the last two decades at least.
Arctic sea-ice was always going to be the canary in the mine, and just look what's happening to that.
It's been much warmer there in the MWP when the Vikings settled in Greenland, you know why they called it that don't you? http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/mandias/lia/vikings_during_mwp.html
As they will. Polynesian islands are already being regularly inundated.
As they're history tells you they have many times in the past, it's nothing new.
And it is already so.
Nope, not at all, that's just alarmist hype.
As it is.
It will be much worse in the new Little Ice Age.
As they will. It'll be hard to pick out the AGW influence from all the other stuff, of course. Pakistan was a mess before the floods, but they really didn't help.
Have to agree there if we don't start preparing for a cooling climate for decades to come.
That's ridiculous.
That's the warmers on full alarm mode.
Nonsense. A feature of the 20thCE was how quiet volcanoes have been, after a very active 19thCE. Vulcanism has a cooling influence, so at least some of the early 20thCE warming was the result of that.

If you see a presentation that ignores vulcanism when making a case for "the Sun did it" you can be sure it's rubbish. There is no one simple explanation for climate change in the last century.
Funny you should say that:

Volcanism and the Little Ice Age
http://www.pages-igbp.org/products/.../Science Highlights/Crowley_2008-2(22-23).pdf
The reason for global warming now is the enhanced greenhouse effect due to atmospheric CO2, and it will continue. We're just shading 390ppm now and it's not about to go down.
Don't be fooled. Have a look at this article and the paper that follows.

Global Temperatures Have Dropped 0.5C In The Last 12 Months
http://stevengoddard.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/capture206.jpg?w=640&h=320
150 years of global warming (0.7C) going down the drain.
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/...ures-have-dropped-0-5c-in-the-last-12-months/

“The Eichler et al. 2008 GRL study of the relation of sunspot number with ice core temperature reconstruction from the Altai glacier demonstrated a twenty year lag between sunspot decrease and a corresponding temperature decrease. If we use 1990 for the beginning of the sunspot decrease that is continuing today then we can conclude that at least twenty more years of cooling has begun.

While the paper claims only 50 % of the recent warming is due to solar, the amount shown for the core is twice the global average. Therefore the correlation is right on for global temps.”

Temperature response in the Altai region lags solar forcing Eichler et al. 2008
http://lch.web.psi.ch/files/Publikationen/analytic/Eichleretal_GRL2009.pdf

You really seem to think this has already happened, that the science is absolutely settled and it's about to get as cold as the 19thCE. When crops grew perfectly adequately in the places they've always been grown, and in new places - the US Mid-West, Australia, Argentina ...
No not happened but happening. The cooling trend has started. All that warming in the last centenary put a lot of heat in the Earth's oceans and the lag has been estimated to be between 10 to 30 years before the cooling hits us hardest. Taking Prof Jones date of 1995 it seems to right on the money to be now that we start to really feel it.
The problem with AGW is that crops will not grow in places where they always have (such as the Indus Valley and parts of China), nor will they grow in some of the new places.
The Little Ice Age (LIA)
"The severe winters affected human life in ways large and small. The population of Iceland fell by half but this was perhaps also due to fluorosis caused by the eruption of the volcano Laki in 1783.[18] Iceland also suffered failures of cereal crops and people moved away from a grain-based diet.[19] The Norse colonies in Greenland starved and vanished (by the 15th century) as crops failed and livestock could not be maintained through increasingly harsh winters"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age
 
You were asked "where is the cooling?". You respond by pointing to solar cycles. This is known as "begging the question" - you assume the hypothesis (solar cycles determine temperature) to show that cooling must have happened, which then confirms the hypothesis.
No statistical warming since 1995 and when you consider all the temperature data fiddling that's been found out - voila - global cooling!
Where is the cooling? The actual cooling, not the solar cycle. Where do you find that?
Global Temperatures Have Dropped 0.5C In The Last 12 Months
http://stevengoddard.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/capture206.jpg?w=640&h=320
150 years of global warming (0.7C) going down the drain.
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/...ures-have-dropped-0-5c-in-the-last-12-months/

“The Eichler et al. 2008 GRL study of the relation of sunspot number with ice core temperature reconstruction from the Altai glacier demonstrated a twenty year lag between sunspot decrease and a corresponding temperature decrease. If we use 1990 for the beginning of the sunspot decrease that is continuing today then we can conclude that at least twenty more years of cooling has begun.

While the paper claims only 50 % of the recent warming is due to solar, the amount shown for the core is twice the global average. Therefore the correlation is right on for global temps.”

Temperature response in the Altai region lags solar forcing Eichler et al. 2008
http://lch.web.psi.ch/files/Publikationen/analytic/Eichleretal_GRL2009.pdf
By the way, Corbyn is sticking to his prediction that Europe will have a very cold and snowy January. I guess his success rate is about to take a small hit.
Could be your guess be wrong and Piers be right?

Let’s wait until the end of January and see. Maybe you’ll be eating crow snow by then?

“It now appears cold air will start advancing South again from Sunday 16th and the next weather periods starting 18th Jan will be back on track with a return of exceptionally harsh winter weather during the second half of January.”
http://www.weatheraction.com/displayarticle.asp?a=297&c=5

Covering the period Oct 2008 to Apr 2009 for US based predictions. Not exactly comprehensive, but he pays the piper.
A Six month period isn't good enough for you? You make no mention of the fact that Piers made those predictions, for that period, months in ADVANCE of it! Maybe you don't understand how remarkable that is? Here have a look at him in action:

Climate Change Debate - Sky Television - Piers Corbyn & John Ackers recorded on the 19th October 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6zSLQA-BrY&feature=related

Who got the weather right ? BBC Radio4 PM programme with Piers Corbyn recorded on the 1st of September 2009.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsAZb3EY2Cc&feature=related
I wonder if he'll commission an audit for Oct 2010 to Apr 2011?
Maybe he will, here he is in Dec 2010:

"Piers Corbyn tells Sky News why all this recent cold weather proves that Man Made Global Warming is nothing but a lie pushed by the establishment in order to fleece more money, freedom and rights away from the 'peasants.' 18 December 2010"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNBlDnA0q3s&feature=related
 
So haig, when are you going to address the issue of no established protocol or metric for Corbyn's success, or will you just cut and paste more meaningless information.
I have done DD. You just don’t like the answer. You audit his work. Then you can set as high a standard as you like.
That covers gale predictions in the UK over two years. I like this :
So you should :)
Oh, I bet they do. Of course there only eight seasons in the whole sample, so that could just be chance. On the other hand, predicting gales in November or January is likely to work out.
WoW! your a hard guy to please. Do you actually live in the UK? The Met can't get their forecasts right more than five days ahead. This guy is making forecasts weeks and months ahead.
Independently assessed? Do you trust credit-rating agencies as well? Your gullibility makes you a danger to yourself, frankly.
Your remarks are so sharp be careful you don’t cut yourself :D
This one, as I've mentioned, was even shorter and this time restricted to the US. Corbyn chose the period and the region. You're OK with that?
How many months ahead did he make that prediction? What mainstream forecaster could make such a long term forecast like that and have it work out? How about the Met? but wait a minute, they used to do them but kept getting it, embarrassingly, wrong and stopped making them public, remember?

The Met and mild winters and barbecue summers:

Reputation, weather and climate
“By predicting a "barbecue" summer that was a washout in between two "mild" winters that were colder than average, did they not committ the cardinal sin of weather forecasting -- long term overconfidence? And drag you down with them?
This reputational trouble is deepening. December was the coldest in the UK since records began in 1910 with an average of -1.7C [-0.7C in England, and the CET series is longer and has a colder December in 1890.]. The Met Office is now claiming it privately told the government in October to expect severe cold. Yet at around the same time it put this image on its website, clearly predicting a mild winter:”

“Piers Corbyn does a wonderful demonstration with a portable shower hose to show what "standard meteorology" (otherwise known as the £30Million Met office super computer) does and how Weaheraction enhances long term predictions by looking at external influences in this, you tube video (about 2 mins in)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMQNrP1NhVM
Tuesday 4th January 2011 “

http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/reputation-weather-and-climate

Why don’t you check out his warnings and predictions for yourself DD (for free) then even you might be impressed? You could pick all the metric and blinding you want, maybe even go double-blind as in the best scientific method.
What’s my suggestion for DD doing here?
http://www.weatheraction.com/displayarticle.asp?a=296&c=5
This is bloody hilarious. He starts with a gratuitous attack on the BBC (which is ideological anathema to Corbyn, being a public institution) :
Have you ever performed on the stage? :rolleyes:
The BBC failed to mention AGW, so Corbyn declares they implied it - but why does "wall of water" imply AGW? Only Corbyn knows.
You’ve not been paying attention. The warmers say ANY unusual weather event is due to AGW
He continues :
You mean YOU continue :)
It's a very odd wall of water that's "centred around 1973-74". Why 1973, when the Brisbane flood was in 1974? What are these "details" that the guru is conversant with, but spares the rest of us? Here's the answer :
I think Sherlock, the clue is in this. (my bold) “details unprecedented since the years of floods centred around 1973-74”
So the Brisbane flood must have been in 1973, not (as the newspapers had it at the time) 1974. Simple really. And the "wall of water" reference is to flash-floods in another place, Toowoomba, not Brisbane. Details, details ...
Your point is lost if you can understand this. (my bold) “Queensland & Australian floods show a very strong tendency to occur at a certain phase of the 19yr eclipse cycle.”
No mention of the dam which was built after the 1974 flood to prevent this kind of thing happening again. It got to 190% planned capacity, I gather. They've been letting water out, obviously : imagine the wall of water if it broke.
So, you’re blaming Piers for the media hype about the story? Or the fact that the dam wasn’t big enough to hold all the rain? Maybe both?
So what does Corbyn conclude from this? Prepare to be unsurprised :
Stands to reason if “2011-1973 = 38 = 2 x 19yr eclipse cycle So the floods are nothing to do with CO2!” Surely you can see that?
He then goes on to predict more floods during the rainy season, with the ground sodden and unprecedentedly warm oceans near Australia. I for one am not impressed.
Your NOT impressed! Why am I not surprised?
 
wow thanks for that link.
while i don't understand any Russian it seems pretty scary.
I wasn’t trying to pull your leg or be cute. I expected you to just look at the graph to see what I was getting at. Sorry.

This is what I should have posted:

This is a better view of that graph. Actually, it’s two graphs, the bottom one showing both sunspot numbers and solar activity over time from before the Maunder Minimum to the present time with the suggested Minimum lasting until 2100. the top graph shows the total solar irradiance (TSI) or sunshine over the same time period.
http://www.gao.spb.ru/english/astrometr/sa_tsi_1600_en.jpg

we have increasing temperatures despite lesser solar activity.
Well no.

According to Prof Jones “there has been no statistically significant warming since 1995”
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-s...s-stunning-global-warming-revelations-ignored

Actually, the global temperature data is under a cloud, so to speak. Scroll back to my replies to RC at the start of my posts today.

Here’s more of what I mean:

GISTEMP Movie Matinées
"Prior to being corrupted adjusted in the year 2000, this is what the GISS US temperature graph looked like.
http://climateinsiders.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/nasapre1999.jpg?w=510&h=363


The 1930s was by far the hottest decade. After being “adjusted” in the year 2000, it magically changed shape. The 1990s became much warmer. 1998 added almost half a degree – ex post facto."
http://climateinsiders.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/nasapost1999-jpg.gif?w=510&h=374

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/07/23/gistemp-movie-matinees/


GISS Surface Temperature Analysis
Station Data
"In our analysis, we can only use stations with reasonably long, consistently measured time records. This is a subset of the full list of stations (copied from GHCN's website and augmented from SCAR). That subset of list of stations that contribute to the final products may slightly change with each update, as the number of stations that get dropped due to the shortness of their temperature record may decrease when new data are added."

b) the number of reporting stations as a function of time,

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/station_data/
but as you seem to have misunderstood my question.
the paper you linked me to seems not to deal with temperatures.
i ask again. can you show me the cooling you was speaking of?
I can try.

Joe Bastardi: “Days Of Thinking Warm, Warm, Warm Are Over” By P Gosselin on 7. January 2011
1. Pacific Decadal Oscillation. The cycles of warm and cold in the Pacific move in 30-year phases. In the warm phase, we see more El Ninos, which boost the earth’s temperature, see Figure 1. Recently we have flipped back to the cold phase, which means more La Ninas ahead, which means a cooler planet.
http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/pdoindex_small.gif

2. Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation has major impacts globally. Right now we are in the middle of the warm phase, but are now on the way down for the next 10 to 20 years, see Figure 2. Strangely the phases are interrupted at about their midpoints. Perhaps we’ve hit one of these midpoint interruptions.
http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/AMO.gif

Figure 2: AMO will be likely in decline from its current warm phase over the next 10 to 20 years.

Both the PDO and AMO show why the globe most likely has warmed about 0.5°C over the last 40 years. Now they give us strong indications of what lies ahead for the next 2 or 3 decades.

Another tiny factor that plays a role in our climate is the sun, believe it or not. Low solar activity has shown to be strongly correlated with cold periods on this planet. Currently, contrary to what was earlier expected by NASA, cycle 24 is turning out to be one of surprisingly low activity. That bodes ill for more cooling.
http://notrickszone.com/2011/01/07/joe-bastardi-days-of-thinking-warm-warm-warm-are-over/
 
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