The virtually free fall speed

[Craig4]

NIST claims column 79 failed at about the 8 story level, causing a redistribution of load to nearby columns causing them to then also fail, and then horizontally from the East side of WTC7 to the West side a horizontal collapse ensued.

But we did not see a side-to-side horizontal collapse, we saw a symmetrical downwards, vertical collapse, didn't we?

How can you agree with the NIST explanation while viewing the actual collapse on video?

That's nice. Recovery any explosive residue yet? How about all the parts used to wire and detonate the explosives? Why don't you run along until you have that.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Right, in the case of WTC1 the first stage of free fall was approximately 2ft.

And in the case of WTC7 it was more like 100ft. Different collapse dynamics, different results. And your point was?

Dave

 

[Dave Rogers]

Newton's third law explains why a 12 story chunk of structure cannot destroy a 94 story chunk of structure.

No, it doesn't. Stop lying.

Each action has an equal and opposite reaction, therefore as the upper 12 stories of WTC2 fell, they would disintegrate equally when striking and disintegrating the lower stories.

Wrong. Every force produces an equal and opposite reaction force. The Third Law says nothing about things being broken, however much truthers like to lie about it. And you're pretending that the rubble produced by this disintegration immediately vanishes. Where are you pretending it goes to?

Once the 12 story chunk has been destroyed, there would be 82 stories still standing.

And 12 storeys' worth of rubble hitting that 82 storeys at nearly 50mph. Or were you trying to fool people into thinking mass disappears when things get broken?

ETA: Actually, 28 storeys' worth: the 12 upper storeys, the 12 lower storeys, and the four that you seem to have lost track of.

Think about it.

Why? You obviously haven't.

Dave

 

[Dave Rogers]

[...]And all the gold beneath WTC2 was gone too.

Lie.

[...]And all the WTC7 steel was gone to China.

Lie.

Checkless. Absence of checkiness. Houston, we do not check.

Maybe you should check, before repeating lies.

Dave

 

[Carlos]

"

Newton's third law explains why a 12 story chunk of structure cannot destroy a 94 story chunk of structure. Each action has an equal and opposite reaction, therefore as the upper 12 stories of WTC2 fell, they would disintegrate equally when striking and disintegrating the lower stories. Once the 12 story chunk has been destroyed, there would be 82 stories still standing.

Think about it.

Wrong.

The weight of 12 intact floors is the same weight of 12 destroyed floors.

 

[triforcharity]

"

Newton's third law explains why a 12 story chunk of structure cannot destroy a 94 story chunk of structure. Each action has an equal and opposite reaction, therefore as the upper 12 stories of WTC2 fell, they would disintegrate equally when striking and disintegrating the lower stories. Once the 12 story chunk has been destroyed, there would be 82 stories still standing.

Think about it.

Where did all the debris go? Does it just disappear?

 

[triforcharity]

NIST claims column 79 failed at about the 8 story level, causing a redistribution of load to nearby columns causing them to then also fail, and then horizontally from the East side of WTC7 to the West side a horizontal collapse ensued.

But we did not see a side-to-side horizontal collapse, we saw a symmetrical downwards, vertical collapse, didn't we?

How can you agree with the NIST explanation while viewing the actual collapse on video?

Because you can see the effects of the interior collapse before the outer shell begins to fall.

Eastern Mechanical Penthouse ring a bell?

 

[GrimFandango]

That's nice. Recovery any explosive residue yet? How about all the parts used to wire and detonate the explosives? Why don't you run along until you have that.

Edited by kmortis: 

Removed uncivil comments

Who supervised the cleanup of GZ?

Right... and that's the same entity who immediately set up 2 piers on the Hudson River where the majority of the steel was loaded aboard ships bound for China for recycling.

While this evidence was being (illegally???) removed and destroyed there was a major outcry by many in the fire prevention industry wanting this material held for analysis. They claimed that since the structural design failed so catastrophically, the remains contained a treasure trove of evidence that needed to be examined by professionals to determine what went so wrong, to help prevent a failure like this in the future. Their demands went unheard as the evidence from the crime scene was removed around the clock and under armed guard.

Are you aware that there has been quantities of material that test as unreacted nano thermite in the dust samples? And are you aware these private reports are completely ignored by NIST and company? If NIST was interested in the truth instead of a whitewash, they would have asked for these reports and samples of the dust for their own analysis. The fact that they stonewalled this information and did not call for samples should tell you everything you need to know about their agenda.

 

[GrimFandango]

Lie.



Lie.



Maybe you should check, before repeating lies.

Dave

No, not all the steel was sent to China, mostof the steel was sent to China, and the selection of what was to be retained was done by the government. All of the steel should have been held until a complete analysis had been performed to determine the cause of the 3 greatest structural failures in history.

And yes, these was billions in Gold bars stored under WTC5 or WTC6 in vaults, and this gold was removed under the protection of hundreds of armed FBI agents, as soon as the first responders had cleared enough rubble to get at it.

If you would like I can provide links to this story from the NY Times.

 

[Dave Rogers]

No, not all the steel was sent to China, mostof the steel was sent to China,

Since you've made that claim, no doubt you'll be able to back it up?

And yes, these was billions in Gold bars stored under WTC5 or WTC6 in vaults, and this gold was removed under the protection of hundreds of armed FBI agents, as soon as the first responders had cleared enough rubble to get at it.

So, (a) the gold was under WTC5 and WTC6, and (b) the gold was recovered. Thus demonstrating that the statement that "All the gold beneath WTC2 was gone" was a lie. Thank you.

Dave

 

[GrimFandango]

Because you can see the effects of the interior collapse before the outer shell begins to fall.

Eastern Mechanical Penthouse ring a bell?

Nonsense.

This "outer shell" theory is just the latest in a parade of discredited and embarrassing theories from our brilliant engineers at NIST.

Remember the "Pancake" theory? How about the "Thermal Expansion" theory? All quietly retired in a wave of ridicule.

Now they claim that a 47 story steel structure was designed with an outer shell, and a interior structure that could collapse inside the shell, out of view of the world, and then the outer shell collapsed straight down afterwards.

But the reality is the structure was a complete, interdependent unit, with steel cross-bracing and load sharing, unitized to withstand high velocity wind and twisting.

Just visualize the entire "inside" failing due to one column at the far East side, and precipitating in a complete collapse of the whole internal structure, while this "shell" of the outside walls just sat there in plain sight until it too fell straight down as a complete unit of the east, north, west and south walls and the entire roof.

 

[Dave Rogers]

This "outer shell" theory is just the latest in a parade of discredited and embarrassing theories from our brilliant engineers at NIST.

Remember the "Pancake" theory? How about the "Thermal Expansion" theory? All quietly retired in a wave of ridicule.

You really haven't got even the most rudimentary understanding of what you're talking about, have you? I mean, you don't even know what theory it is you're rejecting, never mind having any rational criticism of it; you're just pretending everything you don't like is discredited.

Dave

 

[GrimFandango]

Since you've made that claim, no doubt you'll be able to back it up?



So, (a) the gold was under WTC5 and WTC6, and (b) the gold was recovered. Thus demonstrating that the statement that "All the gold beneath WTC2 was gone" was a lie. Thank you.

Dave

I don't know what you have a problem with here. Help me out will you.

Yes there were billions of dollars of gold under the WTC - that can be proven by main stream media reports.

Yes the gold was completely removed under armed guard - that also can be proven by main stream media reports.

What part of this story are you disputing?

 

[Dave Rogers]

I don't know what you have a problem with here. Help me out will you.

Yes there were billions of dollars of gold under the WTC - that can be proven by main stream media reports.

Yes the gold was completely removed under armed guard - that also can be proven by main stream media reports.

What part of this story are you disputing?

Achimspok's claim that there was gold under WTC2 that was never found.

Dave

 

[triforcharity]

Why don't I run along? Why don't you go out and play in the traffic.

Wow, that's not nice.

Who supervised the cleanup of GZ?

Phillips and Jordan out of Zephyrhills FL.

Right... and that's the same entity who immediately set up 2 piers on the Hudson River where the majority of the steel was loaded aboard ships bound for China for recycling.

Lie. All of the steel was moved to Fresh Kills. Once it was determined that it was not a critical piece, was it sent to China and other places.

While this evidence was being (illegally???) removed and destroyed there was a major outcry by many in the fire prevention industry wanting this material held for analysis.

No, it was not illegally removed. It was not evidence. It was debris.

And no, there was not a "major outcry". There was requests that some of the critical columns be saved, but unfortunately it was not saved. They could not determine positively what came from 7WTC or 1&2 WTC, or from where in the building it came from.

They claimed that since the structural design failed so catastrophically, the remains contained a treasure trove of evidence that needed to be examined by professionals to determine what went so wrong, to help prevent a failure like this in the future.

And yet, we were still able to do that. Many State, national, and international building codes were changed after the NIST report came out.

Their demands went unheard as the evidence from the crime scene was removed around the clock and under armed guard.

What crime occured at 7WTC?

You're exagerating about the armed guard thing.

Are you aware that there has been quantities of material that test as unreacted nano thermite in the dust samples?

Are you aware that this "stuff" produces more heat energy than thermite does? Conclusion: Not thermite of any flavor.

And are you aware these private reports are completely ignored by NIST and company?

Rightfully so.

If NIST was interested in the truth instead of a whitewash, they would have asked for these reports and samples of the dust for their own analysis.

Maybe you can provide an in-depth analysis, accounting for all the known facts, and matching the days events that you would like to present?

The fact that they stonewalled this information and did not call for samples should tell you everything you need to know about their agenda.

As opposed to the TM agenda?

 

[twinstead]

GrimFandango you are being told what to think by people who have not a single clue what they are talking about. You should be as critical of the stuff you read on conspiracy websites and forums as you are of the commonly-held narrative, don't you think?

 

[GrimFandango]

You really haven't got even the most rudimentary understanding of what you're talking about, have you? I mean, you don't even know what theory it is you're rejecting, never mind having any rational criticism of it; you're just pretending everything you don't like is discredited.

Dave

No, everything I just mentioned were theories that were released in reports by NIST, and then quietly retracted after these theories were basically laughed out of town.

NOVA even included the "pancake" theory in a for-TV movie with an animation provide by NIST showing each floor striking the floor below, one after another, and then concluding with a big stack of floors (pancakes) on the ground - and - the 47 core steel columns standing proudly over this stack of pancakes.

What numbskulls. How many things can be wrong with one theory? There were no stack of floors on the ground, just dust. The core columns were also ripped and twisted to pieces in the dust. A pancake collapse defies Newton's third law, and even if Newton gave them a pass on his law that day, the steel core columns indeed would have been left standing - which of course they were not.

if you don't know about NISTS's previous and discredited theories, you have no business crossing swords with me here.

 

[triforcharity]

Nonsense.

This "outer shell" theory is just the latest in a parade of discredited and embarrassing theories from our brilliant engineers at NIST.

Maybe you have some math to prove NIST wrong? You'll be the first.

Remember the "Pancake" theory? How about the "Thermal Expansion" theory? All quietly retired in a wave of ridicule.

I remember both of those. The pancake theory was FEMA's, and it was for collapse iniation, not collapse progression. FEMA's conclusions were that it needed further investigation, and that is where NIST came in.

Thermal expansion is not something new. It has been on the LT's test for FDNY for many years. Thermal expansion is still a root cause of collapse of all three buildings. I don't know why you would think otherwise.

Now they claim that a 47 story steel structure was designed with an outer shell, and a interior structure that could collapse inside the shell, out of view of the world, and then the outer shell collapsed straight down afterwards.

But the reality is the structure was a complete, interdependent unit, with steel cross-bracing and load sharing, unitized to withstand high velocity wind and twisting.

Yep. Point?

Just visualize the entire "inside" failing due to one column at the far East side, and precipitating in a complete collapse of the whole internal structure, while this "shell" of the outside walls just sat there in plain sight until it too fell

Ok.

straight down as a complete unit of the east, north, west and south walls and the entire roof.

Lies. More lies.

It did not fall straight down at all. In fact, 7WTC hit 3 other buildings, causing BILLIONS of dollars of damage. Secondly, most of the roof had already collapsed. East and West Mechanical penthouse collapse proves that.

Here is what you should do.

Gather up all your math and science and calculations, tests, experiments, and all the other research you have, put it all together, and prove NIST wrong. Get it published in a respoectable journal. THEN you may have a pot to piss in. As of right now, you don't even have a pot, let alone a window to throw it out of.

 

[Dave Rogers]

No, everything I just mentioned were theories that were released in reports by NIST, and then quietly retracted after these theories were basically laughed out of town.

Wrong. Pancake initiation was put forward as a working hypothesis by FEMA, and superseded by NIST's superior model, for WTC1 and WTC2, not WTC7. At no point was it "laughed out of town". Thermal expansion is the currently accepted explanation for the collapse of WTC7 within the engineering community, and has never been retracted.

NOVA even included the "pancake" theory in a for-TV movie with an animation provide by NIST showing each floor striking the floor below, one after another, and then concluding with a big stack of floors (pancakes) on the ground - and - the 47 core steel columns standing proudly over this stack of pancakes.

Which is a rough approximation to the actual progression of the collapse. Look up "core spires".

What numbskulls. How many things can be wrong with one theory? There were no stack of floors on the ground, just dust.

Wrong. There are well-known pieces of debris consisting of parts of multiple floor slabs fused together by the impact, and even a prominent member of the truth movement has admitted that it's a lie that all the concrete in the towers was turned to dust.

The core columns were also ripped and twisted to pieces in the dust.

Again, look up core spires.

A pancake collapse defies Newton's third law,

What riduculous rubbish. Pancake collapse is a well-known phenomenon. Ronan Point is the classic example. Stop making up laws of physics when you don't understand them.

and even if Newton gave them a pass on his law that day, the steel core columns indeed would have been left standing - which of course they were not.

Core spires. You're going to feel so stupid.

if you don't know about NISTS's previous and discredited theories, you have no business crossing swords with me here.

Let me clue you in: That thing in your hand isn't a sword.

Dave

 

[dafydd]

No, everything I just mentioned were theories that were released in reports by NIST, and then quietly retracted after these theories were basically laughed out of town.

NOVA even included the "pancake" theory in a for-TV movie with an animation provide by NIST showing each floor striking the floor below, one after another, and then concluding with a big stack of floors (pancakes) on the ground - and - the 47 core steel columns standing proudly over this stack of pancakes.

What numbskulls. How many things can be wrong with one theory? There were no stack of floors on the ground, just dust. The core columns were also ripped and twisted to pieces in the dust. A pancake collapse defies Newton's third law, and even if Newton gave them a pass on his law that day, the steel core columns indeed would have been left standing - which of course they were not.

if you don't know about NISTS's previous and discredited theories, you have no business crossing swords with me here.

Crossing swords? It would be unfair of us to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.