Fearing tea party violence, four Arizona Republicans resign

[Thunder]

They "deserve" to be treated with the respect their behaviour warrants- or not, as the case may be... regardless of their political party.

and who gets to decide when a politician is deserving of threatening emails and phons calls, cross-burnings on the front lawn, hate mail, and dead fish being left at their doorstep?

 

[A Laughing Baby]

I just did a quick search on the people in those links. It turns out that at least three of them were into the "Sovereign Citizen" movement. The first had obvious connections to Info Wars. That's not right-wing, that's whacko. I'm starting to wonder if we need to be treating that group a little bit more seriously than we are right now.

I see your post above. You can't just claim that all of these people were "right-wing". One cannot simultaneously hate the country and be mainstream "right-wing" and influenced by major right-wing media sources at the same time.

I don't mean to seem like I mean that they were mainstream right-wing. That's silly. The danger comes from extremists, radicals, just as the danger on the left (ecoterrorists and the like) come from the extremes, the radicals. The sovereign citizen movement is very popular in militia/Patriot groups. Are those groups suddenly not right-wing?

I agree, however. We do need to treat every threat seriously. Pointing and laughing and saying "gee, I'm glad I don't think that" is all well and good, but the fact of the matter is that there are people who think like that.

 

[Ziggurat]

I'm not going to play semantic games on this. I know that there is no exact time-series of incidence of right wing violence out there simply due to the fact that there will be "no, that's not really right-wing" objections to events composing it, and you know that as well. As a result, you can't point to a concrete rise because you can say "well how many were occurring in the past?"

If you can't do that, then on what basis can you conclude that there's an increase? Because it feels that way? Are you saying we should accept your claim even though you can't present any evidence for it? Because it sure sounds that way.

I am interested, however, to see how any of those weren't right wing, or at the least related to key points of right-wing ideology.

In particular I'm thinking of the plane crash guy was not a right winger. He hated the IRS, but he wasn't anti-government. In fact, in his fairwell screed he complains that the government didn't do enough to reign in big corporations, but was instead in the pocket of big business. And he closes it with the statement

"The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed."

Does that honestly sound like a right-winger to you? Because it sure doesn't sound that way to me. If you don't want to call him a left-winger, I'm fine with that too, but he's not a right-winger. Nobody who speaks approvingly of communism and damningly of capitalism can really be accurately described that way.

 

[A Laughing Baby]

If you can't do that, then on what basis can you conclude that there's an increase? Because it feels that way? Are you saying we should accept your claim even though you can't present any evidence for it? Because it sure sounds that way.



In particular I'm thinking of the plane crash guy was not a right winger. He hated the IRS, but he wasn't anti-government. In fact, in his fairwell screed he complains that the government didn't do enough to reign in big corporations, but was instead in the pocket of big business. And he closes it with the statement

"The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed."

Does that honestly sound like a right-winger to you? Because it sure doesn't sound that way to me. If you don't want to call him a left-winger, I'm fine with that too, but he's not a right-winger. Nobody who speaks approvingly of communism and damningly of capitalism can really be accurately described that way.

Let me narrow it to one assuredly right-wing, easy to track case as an example.

#abortion doctors shot to death 2000-2008: 0
#abortion doctors shot to death 2008-2010: 1

Seems like an increase to me.

 

[Kestrel]

and who gets to decide when a politician is deserving of threatening emails and phons calls, cross-burnings on the front lawn, hate mail, and dead fish being left at their doorstep?

Last Friday, the FBI arrested a man who threatened to shoot up Senator Bennet's office. The right to petition the government or elected officials for redress of grievances doesn't include the right to make direct threats.

 

[drkitten]

Let me narrow it to one assuredly right-wing, easy to track case as an example.

#abortion doctors shot to death 2000-2008: 0
#abortion doctors shot to death 2008-2010: 1

Seems like an increase to me.

Not in Tobacco Institute/Ziggurat-world.

You're using unacceptably left-wing mathematics if you think 1>0.

 

[Ziggurat]

Let me narrow it to one assuredly right-wing, easy to track case as an example.

#abortion doctors shot to death 2000-2008: 0
#abortion doctors shot to death 2008-2010: 1

Seems like an increase to me.

Seems like low statistics to me. Plus quite a bit of cherry-picking in regards to time frames. Let's choose some other time intervals (source):

Victims of anti-abortion violence
1991-2000: 19
2001-2010: 1

Oh my, that's quite a drop, don't you think? I included victims who didn't die, so let's recalculate:

Murder victims of anti-abortion violence
1991-2000: 7
2001-2010: 1

Nope, still comes out looking like a big decrease.

 

[Ziggurat]

Not in Tobacco Institute/Ziggurat-world.

You're using unacceptably left-wing mathematics if you think 1>0.

Does that make 7 > 1 right-wing math?

 

[Kestrel]

Yesterday, a California man was arrested for threats to Democratic Congressman Jim McDermott.

 

[casebro]

It's not a gun problem.

It;s not a political problem.

It's a whacko problem.

Actually it's not much of a whacko problem either. This guy, McVeigh, Unabomber. Three whackos in ummm 20 years? (4, w/ 911?) Meantime, 60,000,000 Americans died of causes other than whack-a-pols.

"Elect me! I can stand up to the risk! "

 

[eeyore1954]

I hope so! Russian women are hot!

Not if they live in Yakutsk.

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/europe/yakutsk-journey-to-the-coldest-city-on-earth-771503.html
Journey to the Coldest City on Earth

-31°F | °C
Current: Light snow
Wind: W at 4 mph
Humidity: 64%Wed

-41°F | -46°FThu

-35°F | -42°FFri

-35°F | -46°F

 

[thaiboxerken]

Russia is pretty cold. But the ladies are easy on the eyes.

I'm still wondering why democrats in the area haven't resigned. Maybe it's because they're used to the threats from the Teabaggers.

It appears to me that Dr. Frankenstein has lost control of his monster.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Whatever the case, its not good for democracy when people are afraid to run for office or engage in political activities.

Respectfully disagree.

If you ain't got yer shiznit together, don't run.

We have enough arse clowns as it is.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Last Friday, the FBI arrested a man who threatened to shoot up Senator Bennet's office. The right to petition the government or elected officials for redress of grievances doesn't include the right to make direct threats.

Respectfully disagree.

Your sentence should have read

The right to petition the government or elected officials for redress of grievances doesn't include the right to shoot them if you disagree.

Comprende?

 

[thaiboxerken]

Respectfully disagree.

Your sentence should have read

Comprende?

Yes. You believe it's ok to yell "fire" in a movie theatre.

 

[dudalb]

You know, I know what you're saying, and I understand and respect your point... but I can't help but feel that, while the events in Tucson were unwarranted, unambiguously wrong, and no way to run a country... if it isn't good for there to be just a little fear of us proles in our elected officials.

Yeah, but that fear should be of being voted out of office, not shot.

 

[Ausmerican]

I wonder why Democrats in Arizona aren't quitting.

Completely speculative guess approaching ken.

In the case of AZ Dems, the TPers were against their policies and practices before the election and remain so after the election. There is no escalation of animosity or violence.

The Repubs got in bed with the TP. Made a lot of noises they agreed with. The TP helped get a bunch of them elected. Then the Rs went right on being what they were all along, mainstream politicians only a few hairs different then the Dems. To some of the TPers, that is a betrayel. Therefore escalation in animosity.

Option 2: We dont have hardly any Dems left in office here in AZ to resign lol.

 

[Ziggurat]

Yes. You believe it's ok to yell "fire" in a movie theatre.

No, thai. I believe his point was that there are different kinds of threats. Threatening to vote for someone else is a threat. Threatening to protest outside their office is a threat. These aren't threats of violence, but they are threats. And they're perfectly acceptable.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

I am still wondering why McCain picked her as his running mate. I know it is off topic, but I would love some insight (PM if you like) why he might have thought it would be a good idea.

Because if he picked Joe Lieberman, the racists would have had to coose between a Jew and a . . .

 

[Ziggurat]

Completely speculative guess approaching ken.

Option 3: these guys were unpopular and likely to be voted out next time anyways, and decided to use this opportunity to play the victim in order to garner sympathy and punish their opponents.