Chaos Magic

[dafydd]

You could aleast bring marshmallows since you apparenly care enough to chime in

I don't know if you are trolling or not,but you make me laugh. It's worth playing along to see how big your self-aggrandising can get.

 

[AkuManiMani]

Erm...I've known her since we were teenagers. She used to tell me about how, as a small child, she would "bow to spirits". Like the girls in that 20/20 video, she said she talked to such entities and she even showed me a very distrbing drawing she'd made when she was little [it was one of the few her mother hadn't destroyed]. She also enjoys deceiving/manipulating people and, from an early age, has harbored dreams of forming her own cult. As a matter of fact mass murderers, demagogues, and cult leaders are counted amongst her personal heroes. Shes just an overall creepy evil person </shrug>

Is she related to you getting mixed in with all of this?

Well, that was among the first of quite a few bizarre "anecdotes" I've experienced. The female voice that spoke to me years later brought up that particular incident during our conversation. Beyond that, I don't see how theres any direct connection between the two events beyond the general weirdness factor.

 

[Nonpareil]

Yes, how could I have forgotten that you can directly channel "The Entirety of Science". You've attained virtual omniscience without having to leave your keyboard -- it must be amazing!

Oh, so you think there is some evidence out there in the scientific literature? Can you link to it, or are you just hoping we won't call you on it?

Your auditory hallucinations told you that? Fascinating...

Is that a "No, and I'm going to keep trolling you", then?

 

[tsig]

I'm saying you've no way of knowing whether my anecdotes are true so you might as well just consider them hypothetically. I've given a much details with regard to this specific account as I could without divulging the personal info regarding me and my friend so you're going to have to make due with it. You are quite free to point out any discrepancies if you like, but you're not really going to find any, as there are none </shrug>

Discrepancies? Physics, Biology, Chemistry,>>>>.

 

[AkuManiMani]

I don't know if you are trolling or not,but you make me laugh. It's worth playing along to see how big your self-aggrandising can get.

Jeeze...Just a little while ago I was getting criticized for not telling enough. Now that I'm sharing more details I'm being accused of "self-aggrandizing". Whatdaya want from me?

 

[Malerin]

Oh, so you think there is some evidence out there in the scientific literature? Can you link to it, or are you just hoping we won't call you on it?

Evidence of veridical OBE? Yes:

During the pilot phase in one of the hospitals, a coronary-care-unit nurse reported a veridical out-of-body experience of a resuscitated patient:

"During a night shift an ambulance brings in a 44-year-old cyanotic, comatose man into the coronary care unit. He had been found about an hour before in a meadow by passers-by. After admission, he receives artificial respiration without intubation, while heart massage and defibrillation are also applied. When we want to intubate the patient, he turns out to have dentures in his mouth. I remove these upper dentures and put them onto the 'crash car'. Meanwhile, we continue extensive CPR. After about an hour and a half the patient has sufficient heart rhythm and blood pressure, but he is still ventilated and intubated, and he is still comatose. He is transferred to the intensive care unit to continue the necessary artificial respiration. Only after more than a week do I meet again with the patient, who is by now back on the cardiac ward. I distribute his medication. The moment he sees me he says: 'Oh, that nurse knows where my dentures are'. I am very surprised. Then he elucidates: 'Yes, you were there when I was brought into hospital and you took my dentures out of my mouth and put them onto that car, it had all these bottles on it and there was this sliding drawer underneath and there you put my teeth.' I was especially amazed because I remembered this happening while the man was in deep coma and in the process of CPR. When I asked further, it appeared the man had seen himself lying in bed, that he had perceived from above how nurses and doctors had been busy with CPR. He was also able to describe correctly and in detail the small room in which he had been resuscitated as well as the appearance of those present like myself. At the time that he observed the situation he had been very much afraid that we would stop CPR and that he would die. And it is true that we had been very negative about the patient's prognosis due to his very poor medical condition when admitted. The patient tells me that he desperately and unsuccessfully tried to make it clear to us that he was still alive and that we should continue CPR. He is deeply impressed by his experience and says he is no longer afraid of death. 4 weeks later he left hospital as a healthy man."
http://profezie3m.altervista.org/archivio/TheLancet_NDE.htm

Is the Lancet scientific enough?

 

[Zanders]

Well, that was among the first of quite a few bizarre "anecdotes" I've experienced. The female voice that spoke to me years later brought up that particular incident during our conversation. Beyond that, I don't see how theres any direct connection between the two events beyond the general weirdness factor.

Wouldn't it be amusing if it was the same lady that talked to you and was messing with your friends?

 

[Nonpareil]

http://profezie3m.altervista.org/archivio/TheLancet_NDE.htm

Is the Lancet scientific enough?

If it were doing something more than reporting a secondhand account, then yes, that would be evidence. As it is, it's nothing more than another anecdote.

 

[AkuManiMani]

Yes, how could I have forgotten that you can directly channel "The Entirety of Science". You've attained virtual omniscience without having to leave your keyboard -- it must be amazing!

Oh, so you think there is some evidence out there in the scientific literature? Can you link to it, or are you just hoping we won't call you on it?

I'm just mocking some earlier statements Pixy's made in other threads. Lets just say I've far less respect for him than the vast majority of posters here. If you wish to have a serious discussion with me one your own behalf, please do so.

Your auditory hallucinations told you that? Fascinating...

Is that a "No, and I'm going to keep trolling you", then?

What are you -- part of a tag team in some hive-mind? The exhange with PixyMisa is between him and I. If you've particular points you'd like to discuss speak on, do so on your own behalf and with reference to comments I've addressed to you. My mockery of the Pixy is not your affair.

 

[AkuManiMani]

Wouldn't it be amusing if it was the same lady that talked to you and was messing with your friends?

I wouldnt be suprized if the "hallucinations" experienced by schizophrenics et al. are actually entities who just enjoy trolling humans

 

[AkuManiMani]

If it were doing something more than reporting a secondhand account, then yes, that would be evidence. As it is, it's nothing more than another anecdote.

All scientific studies are just systematized and formalized anecdotes. Unless you're conducting a study for yourself you're simply placing a certain degree of trust in other peoples' word.

 

[tsig]

Evidence of veridical OBE? Yes:

During the pilot phase in one of the hospitals, a coronary-care-unit nurse reported a veridical out-of-body experience of a resuscitated patient:

"During a night shift an ambulance brings in a 44-year-old cyanotic, comatose man into the coronary care unit. He had been found about an hour before in a meadow by passers-by. After admission, he receives artificial respiration without intubation, while heart massage and defibrillation are also applied. When we want to intubate the patient, he turns out to have dentures in his mouth. I remove these upper dentures and put them onto the 'crash car'. Meanwhile, we continue extensive CPR. After about an hour and a half the patient has sufficient heart rhythm and blood pressure, but he is still ventilated and intubated, and he is still comatose. He is transferred to the intensive care unit to continue the necessary artificial respiration. Only after more than a week do I meet again with the patient, who is by now back on the cardiac ward. I distribute his medication. The moment he sees me he says: 'Oh, that nurse knows where my dentures are'. I am very surprised. Then he elucidates: 'Yes, you were there when I was brought into hospital and you took my dentures out of my mouth and put them onto that car, it had all these bottles on it and there was this sliding drawer underneath and there you put my teeth.' I was especially amazed because I remembered this happening while the man was in deep coma and in the process of CPR. When I asked further, it appeared the man had seen himself lying in bed, that he had perceived from above how nurses and doctors had been busy with CPR. He was also able to describe correctly and in detail the small room in which he had been resuscitated as well as the appearance of those present like myself. At the time that he observed the situation he had been very much afraid that we would stop CPR and that he would die. And it is true that we had been very negative about the patient's prognosis due to his very poor medical condition when admitted. The patient tells me that he desperately and unsuccessfully tried to make it clear to us that he was still alive and that we should continue CPR. He is deeply impressed by his experience and says he is no longer afraid of death. 4 weeks later he left hospital as a healthy man."
http://profezie3m.altervista.org/archivio/TheLancet_NDE.htm

Is the Lancet scientific enough?

My virus detector blocks that site for possible mal-ware.

 

[Nonpareil]

I'm just mocking some earlier statements Pixy's made in other threads. Lets just say I've far less respect for him than the vast majority of posters here. If you wish to have a serious discussion with me one your own behalf, please do so.

I am having a discussion with you. That's what it's called when we post back and forth like this.

Also, IIRC, Pixy is female.

What are you -- part of a tag team in some hive-mind?

No. I just don't care to see other posters trolled when they are asking perfectly valid questions and making perfectly valid statements.

The exhange with PixyMisa is between him and I. If you've particular points you'd like to discuss speak on, do so on your own behalf and with reference to comments I've addressed to you. My mockery of the Pixy is not your affair.

What, so I'm not allowed to comment on things you said to other people now?



Come on now. It's a public forum. If you don't want people commenting on your behavior, don't post. If you do post, you have to put up with people responding to your posts, whether you want them to or not.

 

[Nonpareil]

All scientific studies are just systematized and formalized anecdotes. Unless you're conducting a study for yourself you're simply placing a certain degree of trust in other peoples' word.

Quite correct. However, as studies are done in large groups and subject to peer review, the amount of falsification is very small. Otherwise it gets discovered and tossed out.

Malerin's quote was from a scientific study, yes, but it was a paragraph in that study reporting an anecdote from a nurse at the hospital where it took place. As it is not part of the actual data from the study (and the actual study did not attempt to verify it), it's nothing more than a secondhand account.

 

[AkuManiMani]

What, so I'm not allowed to comment on things you said to other people now?



Come on now. It's a public forum. If you don't want people commenting on your behavior, don't post. If you do post, you have to put up with people responding to your posts, whether you want them to or not.

I'm just saying that I've my own reasons for mocking Pixy and I'd prefer you not jump into the crossfire as I still maintain a degree of respect for you that I don't for him/her.

 

[Nonpareil]

I'm just saying that I've my own reasons for mocking Pixy and I'd prefer you not jump into the crossfire as I still maintain a degree of respect for you that I don't for him/her.

Well, quite frankly, you're going to have to put up with it. If you say something to Pixy that I feel like responding to, I'm going to respond to it.

 

[PixyMisa]

Also, IIRC, Pixy is female.

Not the last time I checked.

Come on now. It's a public forum. If you don't want people commenting on your behavior, don't post. If you do post, you have to put up with people responding to your posts, whether you want them to or not.

Well, quite.

 

[Zanders]

Evidence of veridical OBE? Yes:

During the pilot phase in one of the hospitals, a coronary-care-unit nurse reported a veridical out-of-body experience of a resuscitated patient:

"During a night shift an ambulance brings in a 44-year-old cyanotic, comatose man into the coronary care unit. He had been found about an hour before in a meadow by passers-by. After admission, he receives artificial respiration without intubation, while heart massage and defibrillation are also applied. When we want to intubate the patient, he turns out to have dentures in his mouth. I remove these upper dentures and put them onto the 'crash car'. Meanwhile, we continue extensive CPR. After about an hour and a half the patient has sufficient heart rhythm and blood pressure, but he is still ventilated and intubated, and he is still comatose. He is transferred to the intensive care unit to continue the necessary artificial respiration. Only after more than a week do I meet again with the patient, who is by now back on the cardiac ward. I distribute his medication. The moment he sees me he says: 'Oh, that nurse knows where my dentures are'. I am very surprised. Then he elucidates: 'Yes, you were there when I was brought into hospital and you took my dentures out of my mouth and put them onto that car, it had all these bottles on it and there was this sliding drawer underneath and there you put my teeth.' I was especially amazed because I remembered this happening while the man was in deep coma and in the process of CPR. When I asked further, it appeared the man had seen himself lying in bed, that he had perceived from above how nurses and doctors had been busy with CPR. He was also able to describe correctly and in detail the small room in which he had been resuscitated as well as the appearance of those present like myself. At the time that he observed the situation he had been very much afraid that we would stop CPR and that he would die. And it is true that we had been very negative about the patient's prognosis due to his very poor medical condition when admitted. The patient tells me that he desperately and unsuccessfully tried to make it clear to us that he was still alive and that we should continue CPR. He is deeply impressed by his experience and says he is no longer afraid of death. 4 weeks later he left hospital as a healthy man."
http://profezie3m.altervista.org/archivio/TheLancet_NDE.htm

Is the Lancet scientific enough?

When was this ever about OBEs?

 

[PixyMisa]

I'm just saying that I've my own reasons for mocking Pixy

Yes, we know. But it would be nice if occasionally you would address the argument instead.

 

[Nonpareil]

Not the last time I checked.

Well that's me shut up then.