Merged Rep. Giffords Shot In Tucson

[Infoexcavator]

What worries me are the militias. Some of these goons have heavy weapons like mortars. Some day, they will use them.

Really, any source for this? I am just asking because I have always expected that the terrorists will strike with mortars against a massive event like a football match or a concert where people are packed together. Its pretty simple technology and if a militia group can get them then it's inevitably going to be used in the future.

 

[thaiboxerken]

When the one GOP guy yelled "You Lie!" to Obama a few months ago...there were a few guns sold with that same phrase engraved on those weapons. Is that over the top rhetoric or not?

 

[TellyKNeasuss]

I guess that I should give up waiting for an explanation of why it is obvious to everyone but me that Loughner is a schizophrenic.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

... if the guy was feeling homicidal and already was focused on the gov't (likely), then would you say that Ron Paul's innocuous "currency" rhetoric triggered this guy to murder people? Of course not. Currency is just currency. Nothing innately evil about currency. That would be silly.

You also don't hear Ron Paul suggesting the remedy if one loses at the ballot box is armed rebellion. That is not the case with many members of the Tea party.

...There were crazy people ranting about Bush and his cabinet being killers who are deserving of violent deaths. With luck and good security measures, those crazies just happened not to nab Bush and co. ... of course there was that one guy who threw the grenade that was a dud. And that awesome shoe incident.

I know the right is trying really hard to push this tu quoque false equivalency. But it's just that, a false equivalency.

...Where are your APA-approved studies to back this assertion?

Why? Because that is the only convincing evidence you think applies?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I guess that I should give up waiting for an explanation of why it is obvious to everyone but me that Loughner is a schizophrenic.

There's a specific kind of disorganized thought that is classic in the mental disorder of schizophrenia. So it is obvious to people familiar with the disorder, and perhaps not obvious to persons unfamiliar with the illness like yourself.

 

[Lowpro]

Really Skeptic Ginger? That's a little bitchy to say...

Anyways the guy was mentally unhinged. He entertained paranoid delusions. Telly pretty much said it perfectly only used the wrong specific diagnosis...

 

[This is The End]

Haha, what? This is a bizarre statement.
The facts of the case are that a guy walked up to a crowd and started shooting. The material facts don't even appear to be in dispute. We're discussing the potential motivations of the shooter and the political climate of the country.
There is nothing remotely inappropriate about this. I've sat around and had similar conversations with other lawyers thousands of times.

I think you're watched a little too much Law and Order or something. You seem to be inhabiting a fantasy world.

Then you are doing a piss-poor job of distinguishing the facts of the case. What exactly are the facts of the case, counselor?

He just said what they are in the post you quoted... He then said separately that he was discussing potential motivations.


ETA: I'm sorry, I responded before I saw this :

Okay, I read it the wrong way then. My apologies.

Sorry again, (It's a big thread).

 

[Orphia Nay]

I didn't actually expect much from Stewart, but I decided to watch it, just in case.

It is worth it. My favorite takeaway line:

"I do think it's a worthwhile goal not to conflate our political opponents with enemies, if for no other reason than to draw a better distinction between the manifestoes of paranoid madmen and what passes for acceptable political and pundit speech. It would be really nice if the ramblings of crazy people didn't in any way resemble how we actually talk to each other on TV."

Thanks for transcribing that. That was my favourite bit, too, and it bears repeating.

 

[This is The End]

As for the possible book list: This really means nothing. I have Republican friends that would list Animal Farm and the Communist Manifesto as favorites and Jewish friends that would do the same of Mein Kampf. Favorite does not mean being in agreement with. Personally, the bible is one of my favorite anthologies. Also I am an atheist.

His youtube videos on the other hand do present a case for anti-authortarian streak and as a gold/silver CTer.

(Highlighting mine)


You have Jewish friends that list Mein Kampf as one of their favorite books?

 

[nadsat]

I guess that I should give up waiting for an explanation of why it is obvious to everyone but me that Loughner is a schizophrenic.

http://www.salon.com/news/jared_lou...jared_loughner_paranoid_schizophrenia_and_why

Loughner a "textbook" case paranoid schizophrenic
A respected psychiatrist explains why talk of political rhetoric is a "red herring," and where responsibility lies

BY SARAH HEPOLA

It wasn't long after news of the Tucson, Ariz., tragedy broke that the words "paranoid schizophrenic" entered the conversation. Armchair psychiatrists across the country looked at Jared Loughner -- 22, history of antisocial behavior, with a cache of rambling YouTube videos on government mind control -- and diagnosed him. But is there any truth to this? And if so, how does it help make sense of his horrific actions?

To try and untangle the influences that might lead one lone gunman to fire his Glock at a political rally, we turned to Dr. E. Fuller Torrey, respected psychiatrist and one of the foremost experts on paranoid schizophrenics. Torrey has written several books on the mental illness, including the bestselling classic "Surviving Schizophrenia." He is founder of the Treatment Advocacy Center in Virginia, a national nonprofit for the mentally ill.

-snip-

 

[JihadJane]

http://www.salon.com/news/jared_lou...jared_loughner_paranoid_schizophrenia_and_why

Loughner a "textbook" case paranoid schizophrenic
A respected psychiatrist explains why talk of political rhetoric is a "red herring," and where responsibility lies

BY SARAH HEPOLA

Schizophrenics do not live in a political vacuum.

 

[commandlinegamer]

Cover of the next issue of The Stranger includes map of Giffords' shooting with that of other prominent politicians:

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/ar...-week-created-by-dan-savage-and-aaron-huffman

Via Daring Fireball.

 

[e-sabbath]

Specifically, and from the above article,

The real tip-off is the markedly disorganized speech, which you see in the rambling videos. This is the kind of disorganized speech that you virtually never get in any other condition. It's what we call pathognomonic of schizophrenia. That is, when you hear that symptom, it's "schizophrenia until proven otherwise."

The specific feel of the speech is as distinctive of schizophrenia as, say a running nose and snuffling is of a cold. Anyone who's dealt with people with this issue on the internet can recognize it.

 

[stilicho]

It's amusing...that you actually think your BIASED opinions aren't opinions at all...but instead you think you are subjectively looking at the facts.

Obama:
- continues the policy of indefinite detentions
- directed the U.S. military to kill a U.S. citizen overseas
- Hasn't closed Gitmo
- Continues renditions which INCLUDES the torturing of prisoners...it just happens in secret locations overseas.

basically everything Bush did, which I do agree with btw, and everything the Left was against at the time.

Let me put this a different way that won't get me another infraction. Sometimes when you read carefully the posts of the apologists for various anti-government (or anti-anything) radicals on this forum, and regardless of political stripe, you can find close parallels with the YouTube rantings of those who put their words into action.

That ought to be vague enough to avoid an infraction but direct enough that you understand what I'd written.

 

[stilicho]

There's a specific kind of disorganized thought that is classic in the mental disorder of schizophrenia. So it is obvious to people familiar with the disorder, and perhaps not obvious to persons unfamiliar with the illness like yourself.

His pattern of thoughts are pretty orderly. Pleading the Fifth? Come on. What exactly is so disordered about retaining a lawyer and pleading the Fifth?

The fortunate part of this is that he couldn't reload after emptying his clip and shoot himself. He didn't think he'd be confronted afterwards and could endlessly fire until committing suicide and avoiding the enormity of his crime. Now that he actually was disarmed, arrested, and charged, he's doing what any other normal person would by excercising his rights as one of your fellow citizens.

 

[MattusMaximus]

I sure hope that this doesn't go to a jury trial, because if it does the court will have a hell of a tough time getting an impartial jury, especially one which is devoid of all the political talk which is poisoning the well.

 

[stilicho]

I sure hope that this doesn't go to a jury trial, because if it does the court will have a hell of a tough time getting an impartial jury, especially one which is devoid of all the political talk which is poisoning the well.

Are people on the average as strident in their belief systems as talking heads on CNN or here at the JREF? I doubt it. Most people don't invest nearly as much in this stuff as on important things like winter storms or the awesome NCAA football game on Monday night.

I doubt many internet forum regulars would be deemed acceptable by any jury consultants.

 

[MattusMaximus]

Are people on the average as strident in their belief systems as talking heads on CNN or here at the JREF? I doubt it. Most people don't invest nearly as much in this stuff as on important things like winter storms or the awesome NCAA football game on Monday night.

I doubt many internet forum regulars would be deemed acceptable by any jury consultants.

I hope you're right, but in this is the Internet Age and the events in question took place in Arizona, which has a highly charged political environment already. Personally, I think a trial by judge (what's the proper term?) might be better than a jury trial.

 

[e-sabbath]

A bench trial.

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence

This is a criminal trial. Now, I know some folks may think an old sheet of paper isn't all that important, but it happens to mean something in this instance.

 

[zooterkin]

Really, any source for this? I am just asking because I have always expected that the terrorists will strike with mortars against a massive event like a football match or a concert where people are packed together. Its pretty simple technology and if a militia group can get them then it's inevitably going to be used in the future.

Certainly not all that high tech, and at least one terrorist group built their own and used them frequently.