Health care - administrative incompetence

Architect said:
So just to recap, all Western societies are looking at an ageing population profile. A significant number of them have UHC systems covering their entire population cheaper than the US. Even if our costs rise, as they will, our system is still more efficient and affordable than yours.

Do you have a point to make, caller?
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Yes I do. That aging world populations make the prospect of UHC an increasingly difficult reality.

http://theweek.com/article/index/202821/europes-collapse-so-much-for-socialized-medicine
 
Ivor the Engineer said:
Architect and every other sane poster:

Don't react to TFian's provocation. Given his or her total lack of coherent argument I'd recommend pretending he or she doesn't exist.
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Who are you calling sane? Have you seen any of my buildings, for Heaven's sake? ;)
 
TFian said:
Yes I do. That aging world populations make the prospect of UHC an increasingly difficult reality.

http://theweek.com/article/index/202821/europes-collapse-so-much-for-socialized-medicine
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1. Please provide evidence to support your claim that the NHS uses 1970's treatment techniques.

2. I can direct you to an article in yesterday's morning paper here that pointed to the growing cost of care for over 65s. However - and let's be clear on this - it's a problem that the US faces too. But your horrendously inefficient system costs a good half again ours. So you'll face the problem to an even greater degree. Or are you suggesting letting people go without?


(ETA: In response to the latter, I suspect I know his answer already)
 
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Architect said:
1. Please provide evidence to support your claim that the NHS uses 1970's treatment techniques.

2. I can direct you to an article in yesterday's morning paper here that pointed to the growing cost of care for over 65s. However - and let's be clear on this - it's a problem that the US faces too. But your hoorendously inefficient system costs a good half again ours. So you'll face the problem to an even greater degree.
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1.) http://www.cbsnews.com/8618-215_162...sageId=8331945&tag=contentBody;commentWrapper

2.) I agree. That's why we need to scrap Medicare.
 
Architect said:
Or come up with a system like ours which treats everyone for 2/3 the cost of your profit-ridden system. You know, in a way which means we live longer than you guys.
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No thanks. If you want that crap, move to "Vermont" or something. I prefer real America myself.
 
I see. And what evidence do you have that our clinical outcomes are not at least comparable to yours? Careful not to just cherry pick a couple of cancers where you do better but ignore a stack of others. We want a full picture here.

So far you're getting a bit of a kicking on IM and LE. I can't wait to see what else you come up with.



ETA: By way of evidence, here's the other comments on the article you linked above. Funny how the US system takes a kicking from most of the posters, eh? Cherry pick your evidence often, do you?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8601-215_162...eId=30&blogId=&tag=contentBody;commentWrapper
 
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Architect said:
I see. And what evidence do you have that our clinical outcomes are not at least comparable to yours?
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I think the question at hand is cost, and government control into our lives.
 
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I'm not interested in what you think, I'm interested in evidence to support your implicit claim that our system is less effective than yours. You lose on IM and LE. Do you have other comparable cross-sector benchmarks you wish to bring to the table or - as with the whole "1970s" claim - can we safely assume that we'll just get yet more hot air?
 
Architect said:
I'm not interested in what you think, I'm interested in evidence to support your implicit claim that our system is less effective than yours. You lose on IM and LE. Do you have other comparable cross-sector benchmarks you wish to bring to the table or can we assume that we'll jsut get yet more hot air?
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I'm not personally interested in you changing the subject really.
 
TFian said:
No thanks. If you want that crap, move to "Vermont" or something. I prefer real America myself.
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Architect said:
I see. And what evidence do you have that our clinical outcomes are not at least comparable to yours? Careful not to just cherry pick a couple of cancers where you do better but ignore a stack of others. We want a full picture here.

So far you're getting a bit of a kicking on IM and LE. I can't wait to see what else you come up with.
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Architect said:
I'm not interested in what you think, I'm interested in evidence to support your implicit claim that our system is less effective than yours. You lose on IM and LE. Do you have other comparable cross-sector benchmarks you wish to bring to the table or - as with the whole "1970s" claim - can we safely assume that we'll just get yet more hot air?
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TFian said:
I'm not personally interested in you changing the subject really.
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But TF, you are the one suggesting that the UK system is in some way inferior to the US system. Am I to assume that you cannot, in fact, back up your claim? That it's as spurious as the "1970s" assertion that appeared on the preceding page?

In fact, TF, I put it to you that you're all bluster and no substance. You have been unable to back-up any of your accusations, claims, or theories beyond empty rhetoric and accusations of people changing subject or picking on you. You cherry pick one quotewhich backs your position from 50-odds , but run a mile when challenged.

This is a sceptic site. By all means take a right wing or anarchistic position. But don't be surprised when you're asked to back up your case.
 
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TFian said:
I'm not personally interested in you changing the subject really.
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Seems to me Architect is the one sticking to the subject here.

You were the one who claimed our health service is rooted in the 1970s, and "crappy". Please supply your evidence for these astonishing statements. Evidence dated to closer than ten years in the past, please.

Rolfe.
 
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Rolfe said:
Seems to me Architect is the one sticking to the subject here.

You were the one who claimed our health service is rooted in the 1970s. Please supply your evidence for this astonishing statement.

Rolfe.
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Especially as it's distracting me from something I was finishing off for Rolfe.
 
Anyway, Arizona rescinds health spending for transplant surgery for Medicaid patients. And people want this to be for every American?

Further proof you really can't depend on the state if you want to stay alive.

Positive though? Less illegals getting free health care.
 
TFian said:
Anyway, Arizona rescinds health spending for transplant surgery for Medicaid patients. And people want this to be for every American?

Further proof you really can't depend on the state if you want to stay alive.

Positive though? Less illegals getting free health care.
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Why do you pick an example from the truly crappy US system, when asked to substantiate your claim that the NHS is crappy?

The NHS will pay for a transplant for anyone the docs can get an organ for.

Rolfe.
 
TFian said:
Anyway, Arizona rescinds health spending for transplant surgery for Medicaid patients. And people want this to be for every American?

Further proof you really can't depend on the state if you want to stay alive.

Positive though? Less illegals getting free health care.
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Now who's changing the subject?

1. Evidence of your claim regarding 1970s standards of clinical treatment in the UK?

2. Evidence of your claim that clinical outcomes in the UK are below US standards, including alternative measures to admittedly rough and ready IM and LE as suggested elsewhere?

Come on, even BaC makes a better fist of it than this!

Less illegals getting free health care.
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I see. And did you just think of it all by yourself? Not considered what other countries might be doing, eh?
 
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